Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Mandela on Israel

Gloria in excelsis Emeagwali,

Wow! Desmond Tutu says he was not invited to Mandela funeral

So, the Prime Minister of Israel was not at Madiba's funeral! Nobody seems to be making a fuss about the many other presidents and prime ministers who were not there, however  Israel was well represented by the speaker of the Knesset and a high level delegation

N.B. Benjamin Netanyahu was not at the funeral of P.W. Botha.

There's considerable foaming of the mouth in reaction to that most infamous you know who stationed @ position 7 in Time Magazine's top 100 historical figures, just six notches behind Jesus of Nazareth which is in Israel.

You know that you, Paul, John the baptiser, Peter, James, St. Augustine, other modern day disciples of Jesus, idolaters etc are denied permission to build even a single church in Saudi Arabia? Is that Apartheid? Of course not. 

Before the Six Day War which liberated Jerusalem did the Jewish people / Israel have access to the holiest site in all Jewish history?

You know that as far as the Syrians are concerned, what you would like to carve out as "a Palestinian state" would be nothing but "a province of Syria" to them?

 What you may not know is that throwing Philip Weiss's anti-Semitic article in my face as a response, is not very helpful to the discussion.

You know that Arab money goes a long way. – Colonel Gaddafi was not crowned king of kings of Africa by the sycophants and hypocrites, for nothing. The title must have cost something. If Gaddafi who deposed King Idriss of Libya in his 1969 coup d'état, only to impose himself as the new king of not only Libya but the whole of Africa, as "king of kings of Africa", then what was H.I.M. Haile Selassie and the Ethiopian dynasty – a sub-king? And the Oba on Benin? Arab money walks and talks. Mondoweiss is a notoriously anti-Israel web-blog and all of the rubbish it brings out must be read critically and roundly dismissed for what it is.

Please let's get to the alpha and omega of this conflict:

I'm sure that if we were talking, face to face, we wouldn't be quarrelling. One good thing about this and other kinds of  civilised discussions/debates is that  just as with war, war is usually followed by  peace  - yes peace –( even peace  minus some eternal love & tranquillity ) – except of course when it comes to the conflict between Israel  and the Arabs  including  all of those who have now settled in Judea and Samaria, the so called "West Bank " where Jesus was born,  now being claimed as an Arab frontline state and buffer zone. As you heard Hamas say,

"We will not recognize any agreement or promises that lead to the recognition of the enemy, and we will not recognize any agreements at the expense of our land, rights and religious sites. Palestine—the whole of Palestine, from the sea to the river—is the property of Palestinian people and our nation, and no usurper has any right to a speck of dust of its territory."

 This is consistent with article 11 of the Hamas Charter :

"Article Eleven: The Strategy of Hamas: Palestine is an Islamic Waqf
The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine has been an Islamic Waqf throughout the generations and until the Day of Resurrection, no one can renounce it or part of it, or abandon it or part of it. No Arab country nor the aggregate of all Arab countries, and no Arab King or President nor all of them in the aggregate, have that right, nor has that right any organization or the aggregate of all organizations, be they Palestinian or Arab, because Palestine is an Islamic Waqf throughout all generations and to the Day of Resurrection. Who can presume to speak for all Islamic Generations to the Day of Resurrection? This is the status [of the land] in Islamic Shari'a, and it is similar to all lands conquered by Islam by force, and made thereby Waqf lands upon their conquest, for all generations of Muslims until the Day of Resurrection. This [norm] has prevailed since the commanders of the Muslim armies completed the conquest of Syria and Iraq, and they asked the Caliph of Muslims, 'Umar Ibn al-Khattab, for his view of the conquered land, whether it should be partitioned between the troops or left in the possession of its population, or otherwise. Following discussions and consultations between the Caliph of Islam, 'Umar Ibn al-Khattab, and the Companions of the Messenger of Allah, be peace and prayer upon him, they decided that the land should remain in the hands of its owners to benefit from it and from its wealth; but the control of the land and the land itself ought to be endowed as a Waqf [in perpetuity] for all generations of Muslims until the Day of Resurrection. The ownership of the land by its owners is only one of usufruct, and this Waqf will endure as long as Heaven and earth last. Any demarche in violation of this law of Islam, with regard to Palestine, is baseless and reflects on its perpetrators "

"The Bible came from Arabia" is the sort of counter-history, an alternate take of place names etc by which they hope to buttress their claims – in contradiction to the scriptures that Islam says that the Quran "confirms "

There are other denials, such as that the Beit Hamikdash never existed!

This is consistent with  the Pals' position that they do not recognise  or acknowledge the existence of a country known as Israel  - by which of course they mean that they would like to wipe her off the map  excise her  from the Torah and from history....

But prophecy will be fulfilled...

"Unless Israel changes its policies" then blah blah blah says your yeye man Jay Michaelson.

"If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be nomore Israel'"– Benjamin Netanyahu– you should know that's the truth and nothing but the truth.

More recently Shlomo Sand - I was at the meeting where he presented his book  which like Jimmy Carter's Apartheid book became an overnight best seller in the Arab world.

The only interesting question raised in the Mondoweiss piece is, "who will be Palestine's Mandela?"

The answer – in my opinion, with so much Jewish blood on his hands, I don't believe that even twenty-seven years of prison would sufficiently condition Marwan Barghouti to be a Palestinian Mandela....

Once again: Israel is not and cannot be an Apartheid state  - nor is Sweden...

Sincerely,

We Sweden

'It's hard to see why Israel won't follow white South Africa's road to extinction,' says 'Forward' writer
Dec 17, 2013 | Philip Weiss

The wheels may be coming off a wee bit faster than expected. Articles in two leading Jewish papers on the Mandela funeral and the clumsy official Israeli response concede the similarity of conditions in Palestine to apartheid in South Africa. Both articles use moral language. The Forward says that Israel may well face extinction ala South Africa. The Jewish Week says Israel cannot remove the indelible stain of supporting apartheid.

(By the way, Jimmy Carter said it was apartheid 7 years ago, and Terry Gross and others said<http://mondoweiss.us1.list-manage.com/track/click?u=8d38ef747c2061bb9c6137961&id=4ad0ebb96a&e=d644f105c1> he was wrong to do so.)

First, Jay Michaelson, a contributing editor, writing in the Forward: "Is the Israel of Today Becoming 1980s South Africa?":
<http://mondoweiss.us1.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=8d38ef747c2061bb9c6137961&id=2b0b0fb663&e=d644f105c1>

Unless Israel changes its policies, it will soon be quite similar to South Africa in the 1980s, and it's hard to see why it won't follow white South Africa's road to extinction. True, Israel has much better lobbyists, but South Africa had its supporters too, especially within the Republican party (sound familiar?) and with its mineral wealth, it had plenty of money to spend. It also had wonderful tourist attractions, an entrepreneurial spirit, and a thriving cultural scene. Nothing helped. You can't whitewash apartheid. Eventually, unless you're too big to oppose, like China or Russia, the world does turn against you.

There is one open question, though, to which no one can yet know the answer. If Israel/Palestine 2025 is South Africa 1985, who will be Palestine's Mandela?

And here is Rabbi Gerald Skolnik in the Jewish Week, faulting Netanyahu <http://mondoweiss.us1.list-manage.com/track/click?u=8d38ef747c2061bb9c6137961&id=273036b6df&e=d644f105c1> for blowing off the Mandela funeral:

Is it possible that a man who is such a political animal – and a remarkably effective one at that – could actually be so tone-deaf to political sensitivities that he would risk hurting the global interests of the country he loves for the sake of making a sarcastic and very ill-advised political point? If true, it was as if he were saying, "OK, you want me to spend less, I'll spend less. I'll skip Mandela's funeral." It would be the ultimate example of penny-wise, pound-foolish…

It is hardly a secret that, during the years of apartheid in South Africa, Jerusalem and Pretoria were serious trade partners. Weapons, nuclear technology, agriculture… it was all part of a lucrative arrangement for both sides. …

None of this is to be understood as a "whitewash." Dealing with South Africa during its apartheid years left an indelible stain on Israel's soul – a price that, one might say, it willingly and understandably had no choice but to pay at the time. I have to think that, in some way, the lasting impact of that stain played a role in Prime Minister Netanyahu's decision to stay away from Pretoria last week. The decision was at best an ill-advised one, enhancing the perception that Israel's policies on the West Bank are comparable to apartheid.

________________________________
From: Cornelius Hamelberg [cornelius...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 8:52 PM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Chambi Chachage; Emeagwali, Gloria (History)
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Mandela on Israel


Professor Gloria in excelsis Emeagwali,

I guess that there's what you call "an ethnic dimension" even a religious and political dimension to

Palestinian Terrorist Acts<https://www.google.se/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=hts&oq=&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4NDKB_enSE548SE548&q=Palestinian+Terrorist+Acts> and  as well as to that single, singularly horrendous massacre perpetrated by one Baruch Goldstein<https://www.google.se/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4NDKB_enSE548SE548&q=Baruch+Goldstein>



All I'm saying is that if the IDF opened fire on/ gunned down 34 innocent Palestinian or African workers (Black or White) or Germans who had taken recourse to some industrial action /were on strike - the Arab League, the OIC, the AU, the EU, the The, and the ICC would all be foaming at the mouth and would have called for an emergency meeting of the Security Council etc etc etc....and you know it....And if some of those thus gunned down were Nigerian? O la la  - wahala !  Come hear Brer Ikhide and the big grammars of exasperation & condemnation ("in the strongest possible terms" etc.) But when Boko Haram is on the rampage, there's no foaming at the mouth, no emergency meeting of the Security Council...



You ask, "Given the fact that the owners of the mines are mainly White but the government
 and some police officials are Black. Would we classify this in the identical way?"



Can you imagine the fallout, should the current South African government's law enforcement agents gunning down 34 Boer miners in cold blood - in a mine owned by Black South Africans?  I leave it to your imagination...



In any case, back to the original statement by Ron Jager<https://www.google.se/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=hts&oq=&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4NDKB_enSE548SE548&q=Ron+Jager> :

"It is not hard to imagine what the South African government's website would have said had Israeli forces shot dead 34 Palestinian Arab workers.<http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.israelnationalnews.com%2FArticles%2FArticle.aspx%2F14244&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNFd371PnzE7wucpKZgyc9BWJZ3RkA> "


Only Sincerely,
We Sweden<http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/corneliushamelberg/>


On Tuesday, 17 December 2013 00:36:52 UTC+1, Emeagwali, Gloria (History) wrote:
'..and it's referring to the sort of coldblooded massacre of the Marikana type
 that has not happened in Israel.'

Massacres in Israel take on an ethnic dimension,  given  the demographics and
the nature of the confrontation-  largely over occupied land, land rights, illegal
housing settlements and so on. Many die in the process of relocation.
There have been quite a few massacres and responses to them.

 Now in the case of  Marikana, we have a labor  dispute over pay in some platinum mines
Given the fact that the owners of the mines are mainly White but the government
 and some police officials are Black.Would we classify this in the identical way?
Is Marikana fundamentally a labor dispute? Or is it race-based.

I don't have a definitive answer to this.

________________________________
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com<https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx> [usaafric...@googlegroups.com<https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>] On Behalf Of Cornelius Hamelberg [cornelius...@gmail.com<https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>]
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 11:05 PM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com<https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
Cc: Chambi Chachage
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Mandela on Israel


That was not a quote from Carter – and it's referring to the sort of coldblooded massacre of the Marikana type that has not happened in Israel. What Ron Jager is saying in that quote is that if such a tragedy occurred in Israel, the whole world would be foaming at the mouth; the Security Council would have an emergency session followed by a string of condemnations, resolutions, threats by Hezbollah, terrorism by Islamic Jihad etc. Take for instance mad max's outrageous piece here and elsewhere, some more diarrhoea from the dark side of the moon re- Former Pink Floyd frontman sparks fury by comparing Israelis to Nazis<http://www.google.se/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDEQqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fmusic%2F2013%2Fdec%2F14%2Fpink-floyd-frontman-fury-israel-nazis&ei=DHSuUsiRFujNygOM1IK4AQ&usg=AFQjCNGpmS4ekxcl1nTQcG83LrLjsTyXdg&bvm=bv.57967247,d.bGQ>

First simple question: Where are the gas chambers? This is what happens with exaggerated false parallels and false analogies.

Before Carter's book there was Uri Davis' back in 2004...

There's nothing new in the ANC resolutions, not even "the right of return"

The fake Mandela letter claims that "Palestinians are not struggling for a "state" but for freedom, liberation and equality..." True: Hamas does not want a Palestinian state - they want to replace/ displace all of Israel, like Boko Haram they would like to establish a Caliphate<http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2013/12/hamas-interior-minister-calls-for-third-intifada-and-declares-we-will-establish-islamic-caliphate.html> based on Sharia.  Read article 11 of their Charter.

The whole world could prevail on Abbas and Hamas to begin by renouncing terrorism and recognising Israel's right to exist<https://www.google.se/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=hts&oq=&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4NDKB_enSE548SE548&q=Palestinians+should+recognize+Israel%E2%80%99s+right+to+exist...>...


On Monday, 16 December 2013 03:33:10 UTC+1, Chambi Chachage wrote:
So, how did Gloria not get it straight? The quote from President Carter below seems to confirm what she was saying as it prescribes a 'non-Apartheid' solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict.

By the way, ANC's position is clear: http://www.anc.org.za/docs/dcl/2012/isc_declarationu.pdf

________________________________
From: Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com<https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>>
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com<https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Mandela on Israel

Food for thought:
It is not hard to imagine what the South African government's website would have said had Israeli forces shot dead 34 Palestinian Arab workers.<http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/14244>

On Saturday, 14 December 2013 23:27:56 UTC+1, seguno2013 wrote:
Thanks for this information. No wonder the Israeli president or Prime Minister did not attend the memorial service of Madiba.
Segun Ogungbemi

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 14, 2013, at 10:18 PM, "Abegunrin, Olayiwola M."<oabegunrin@Howard.edu> wrote:

>
> Get it straight, it was President Carter's book titled- "Palestine Peace not Apartheid," published in 2006. President Jimmy Carter prescribes steps that must be taken for the two States, Israeli and Palestine side by side to share "the Holy Land," without a system of apartheid or the constant fear of terrorism.
> Mandela's Party-African National Congress (ANC) was a very close ally of Palestinians during the struggle for the liberation of South Africa from the apartheid rule, while the Israeli Government was a close ally of the apartheid government in South Africa and even helped the apartheid government in developing nuclear weapon. South Africa under the apartheid rule was the only African country that developed nuclear weapon and it was with the help of the Israeli Government in the 1970s.  The South African nuclear weapon was destroyed in 1992, during the negotiations between the White apartheid government and the ANC that led to black majority rule that elected Nelson Mandela as the first democratically elected President of South Africa in 1994.  Go and read "The Unspoken Alliance: Israel's Secret Relationship With Apartheid South Africa," by Sasha Polakow-Suransky, published in 2010.
> Layi
>
>
>
> ______________________________ __________
> From: usaafric...@ googlegroups.com<http://googlegroups.com> [usaafric...@ googlegroups.com<http://googlegroups.com>] On Behalf Of Emeagwali, Gloria (History) [emea...@mail.ccsu.edu]
> Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 12:57 PM
> To: usaafric...@ googlegroups.com<http://googlegroups.com>
> Cc: Wanazuoni; Chambi Chachage
> Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Mandela on Israel
>
> For your information, I  recall that President Jimmy Carter called Israel an apartheid state .
> Does his statement  hurt or help your story line?Add a link to his book, all the same.
>
>
> Professor Gloria Emeagwali
> vimeo.com/user5946750/videos<http://vimeo.com/user5946750/videos><http://vimeo.com/user5946750/videos>
> Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora
> ______________________________ __________
> From: usaafric...@ googlegroups.com<http://googlegroups.com> [usaafric...@ googlegroups.com<http://googlegroups.com>] On Behalf Of Cornelius Hamelberg [cornelius...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 8:46 AM
> To: usaafric...@ googlegroups.com<http://googlegroups.com>
> Cc: Wanazuoni; Chambi Chachage
> Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Mandela on Israel
>
> As has been admitted by the real author of the hoax – a Palestinian - that letter was not written by Madiba Nelson Mandela – and we all know that Madiba never equated and would never equate Israel with "an apartheid system" or what was Apartheid South Africa.
>
> We also know that on many occasions Madiba issued statements that were strongly supportive of the Palestinian cause.
>
> Just as Israel too was anxious for the Nigeria- Biafra Civil War to be speedily ended.<https://www.google.se/ search?rlz=1T4NDKB_ enSE548SE548&q=Israel+on+the+ Nigeria-Biafra+Civil+War&oq= Israel+on+the+Nigeria-Biafra+ Civil+War&gs_l=serp.12...5852. 5852.0.7541.1.1.0.0.0.0.29.29. 1.1.0.ernk_timepromotiona...0. ..1.1.32.serp..1.0.0.-TSog_ IeF5Q<https://www.google.se/search?rlz=1T4NDKB_enSE548SE548&q=Israel+on+the+Nigeria-Biafra+Civil+War&oq=Israel+on+the+Nigeria-Biafra+Civil+War&gs_l=serp.12...5852.5852.0.7541.1.1.0.0.0.0.29.29.1.1.0.ernk_timepromotiona...0...1.1.32.serp..1.0.0.-TSog_IeF5Q>>
>
> However let's be clear about this:
>
> Israel is not an apartheid state – Lecture by Denis Prager<http://www.israpundit. com/archives/53525<http://www.israpundit.com/archives/53525>>
>
> Not Apartheid<http://www. israpundit.com/archives/4080<http://israpundit.com/archives/4080><http://www.israpundit.com/archives/4080>>
>
> Israel and the Apartheid Slander by Richard J. Goldstone<http://www.nytimes. com/2011/11/01/opinion/israel- and-the-apartheid-slander. html?_r=3&<http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/01/opinion/israel-and-the-apartheid-slander.html?_r=3&>>
>
> The myth of 'apartheid' Israel<http://www.israpundit. com/archives/3988<http://www.israpundit.com/archives/3988>>
>
> Is Israel an Apartheid State?<http://www.israpundit. com/archives/31437<http://www.israpundit.com/archives/31437>>
>
> I rest my case and N. B. if Israel were an Apartheid state – God forbid -  I would have joined Hamas or Islamic Jihad and would be fighting on the side of the Pals, tooth and nail not to erect the 23rd Arab state in the area or a Sharia state called the Islamic Republic of Palestine in which non-Muslims would be dhimmis<https://www.google.se/ search?sourceid=navclient&ie= UTF-8&rlz=1T4NDKB_ enSE548SE548&q=dhimmis<https://www.google.se/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4NDKB_enSE548SE548&q=dhimmis>> – I would be fighting to help dismantle such an Apartheid State...
>
> Sincerely,
>
> We Sweden<http://www.thelocal.se/ blogs/corneliushamelberg/<http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/corneliushamelberg/>>
>
>
> On Friday, 13 December 2013 15:06:59 UTC+1, Chambi Chachage wrote:
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> From:
> To: cham...@yahoo.com<javascript:>
> Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 11:55 AM
> Subject: FW: Mandela had a moral compass; no double standards:
>
> Some shining messages from Mandela  for the Israelis.
> Most of whom are living in a spécial bunker of their own.
>
> ______________________________ __
> Subject: Fwd: Mandela had a moral compass; no double standards:
> From: nahla....@hotmail.com< javascript:>
> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 07:43:59 +0100
> To: ad...@arabooks.ch<javascript:>
> A must read.
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: Qazi Shaukat Fareed <far...@un.org>
> Date: 12 décembre 2013 02:54:03 HNEC
> Subject: Mandela had a moral compass; no double standards:
>
> Subject: Mandela had a moral compass; no double standards:
>
> please circulate..
>
> Mandela had a moral compass; no double standards : God bless his soul
>
> Nelson Mandela's Letter To Tom Friedman, About The Palestinian Tragedy
>
> MEMO
> March 28, 2001
>
> To: Thomas L. Friedman (columnist New York Times)
> From: Nelson Mandela (former President South Africa)
>
> Dear Thomas,
>
> I know that you and I long for peace in the Middle East, but before you continue to talk about necessary conditions from an Israeli perspective, you need to know what's on my mind. Where to begin? How about 1964. Let me quote my own words during my trial.
>
> They are true today as they were then:
> "I have fought against white domination and I have fought against black domination. I have cherished the ideal of a democratic and free society in which all persons live together in harmony and with equal opportunities. It is an ideal which I hope to live for and to achieve. But if needs be, it is an ideal for which I am prepared to die."
>
> Today the world, black and white, recognise that apartheid has no future. In South Africa it has been ended by our own decisive mass action in order to build peace and security. That mass campaign of defiance and other
> actions could only culminate in the establishment of democracy. Perhaps it is strange for you to observe the situation in Palestine or more specifically, the structure of political and cultural relationships between Palestinians and Israelis, as an apartheid system. This is because you incorrectly think that the problem of Palestine began in 1967.
> This was demonstrated in your recent column "Bush's First Memo" in the New York Times on March 27, 2001.
> You seem to be surprised to hear that there are still problems of 1948 to be solved, the most important component of which is the right to return of Palestinian refugees.
>
> The Palestinian-Israeli conflict is not just an issue of military occupation and Israel is not a country that was established "normally" and happened to occupy another country in 1967. Palestinians are not struggling for a "state" but for freedom, liberation and equality, just like we were struggling for freedom in South Africa.
>
> In the last few years, and especially during the reign of the Labour Party, Israel showed that it was not even willing to return what it occupied in 1967; that settlements remain, Jerusalem would be under exclusive Israeli sovereignty, and Palestinians would not have an independent state, but would be under Israeli economic domination with
> Israeli control of borders, land, air, water and sea.
>
> Israel was not thinking of a "state" but of "separation". The value of separation is measured in terms of the ability of Israel to keep the Jewish state Jewish, and not to have a Palestinian minority that could have the opportunity to become a majority at some time in the future. If this takes place, it would force Israel to either become a secular democratic or bi-national state, or to turn into a state of apartheid not only de facto, but also de jure.
>
> Thomas, if you follow the polls in Israel for the last 30 or 40 years, you clearly find a vulgar racism that includes a third of the population who openly declare themselves to be racist. This racism is of the nature of "I hate Arabs" and "I wish Arabs would be dead". If you also follow the judicial system in Israel you will see there is discrimination against Palestinians, and if you further consider the 1967 occupied territories you will find there are already two judicial systems in operation that represent two different approaches to human life: one for Palestinian life and the other for Jewish life. Additionally there are two different approaches to property and to land. Palestinian property is
> not recognised as private property because it can be confiscated.
>
> As to the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, there is an additional factor. The so-called "Palestinian autonomous areas" are bantustans. These are restricted entities within the power structure of the Israeli apartheid system.
>
> The Palestinian state cannot be the by-product of the Jewish state, just in order to keep the Jewish purity of Israel. Israel's racial discrimination is daily life of most Palestinians. Since Israel is a Jewish state, Israeli Jews are able to accrue special rights which non-Jews cannot do. Palestinian Arabs have no place in a "Jewish" state.
>
> Apartheid is a crime against humanity. Israel has deprived millions of Palestinians of their liberty and property. It has perpetuated a system of gross racial discrimination and inequality. It has systematically incarcerated and tortured thousands of Palestinians, contrary to the rules of international law. It has, in particular, waged a war against a civilian population, in particular children.
>
> The responses made by South Africa to human rights abuses emanating from the removal policies and apartheid policies respectively, shed light on what Israeli society must necessarily go through before one can speak of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East and an end to its apartheid policies.
>
> Thomas, I'm not abandoning Mideast diplomacy. But I'm not going to indulge you the way your supporters do. If you want peace and democracy, I will support you. If you want formal apartheid, we will not support you. If you want to support racial discrimination and ethnic cleansing, we will oppose you. When you figure out what you're about, give me a call.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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