Brother John,
I'm not an expert on Sudan, I have basic knowledge of the situation. And, as an African in America (and a former US Marine) I am obligated to speak out against US foreign policy which has generally been horrific for African self-determination.
2. Re: Khartoum. There are allegations that Khartoum is backing one side of the current conflict. I said that Khartoum involvement would not be suprising and that they benefit from from instability in the South. Obviously these accusations should be investigated. Khartoum historically supported SPLA rivals in order to divide and conquer (or at least weaken).
3. Re: US. I simply said the US policy in Africa has generally been disastrous and the US malfeasance in Sudan begins with the discovery of oil and backing either side of north-south conflict.
4. Re. UK. Has historically promoted rivalries in Sudan to promote their own interests. I dont know that UK has a direct role in the current conflict but they certainly help to create the circumstances that makes the violence possible.
5. Re: France. I dont recall mention France. Perhaps you meant Israel? I said that Israel, like the USA has been supporting secession, but for a slightly different set of reasons than US, or, at least, a different emphasis. Both the US and Israelis have oil interests in US but Israel is probably more determined than the US to undermine Khartoum.
On top of all that, the struggle in South Sudan has always been fragmented. There have been over the years splits within the SPLA along with other rivals to the SPLA that have covertly supported by Khartoum (as I noted in #2).
If there is to be a political solution to the violence in South Sudan, all of these complicated factors must be on board. And, to reiterate, peace in South Sudan can't be worked out in a vacuum or reduced to bad men shooting guns or inept African leaders. And one would necessarily have to look carefully at Khartoum.
kzs
On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 12:43 PM, John Mbaku <jmbaku@weber.edu> wrote:
Dear KZS:You said I distorted what you said about the atrocities being committed in South Sudan. Please summarize your analysis of the crisis and bring into play the various characters that you mentioned earlier: United States; France; Israel; Khartoum/Sudan; Arab; Nuer; Dinka; UK. Please help us understand. Thank you.--On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 7:49 AM, Emeagwali, Gloria (History) <emeagwali@mail.ccsu.edu> wrote:Indeed. How can you solve a problem if you don't understand the historical, international,
sociological and even psychological dimensions of the phenomenon in question?
Life is complex and so, too, are crisis situations. In this case it is important to know
whether Machar made a deal with Khartoum, and the allies of Khartoum,
for conflict resolution purposes. We need to know also whether resources are
skewed in the direction of one region at the expense of the other etc. etc.
' The devil made me do it' is no less simplistic than 'Africans are
inherently evil' ---- in the world of caricature.
Professor Gloria Emeagwali
africahistory.net
http://vimeo.com/66699182
Docu on Sudan________________________________Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 8:29 AM
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of kwame zulu shabazz [kwameshabazz@gmail.com]To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - BLAME OBAMA FOR S. SUDANBro Pablo,
Context and periodization are essential tools of peacemakers and political solutions...certainly not synonymous with your "devil made me do it" caricature.
kzsOn Dec 23, 2013 7:43 AM, "Pablo Idahosa" <pidahosa@yorku.ca<mailto:pidahosa@yorku.ca>> wrote:
Right on, John.
They-made-me-do-it gets very tiresome. It reminds me of one our prestigious African academics responding to patrimonial this and extraversion that, and he responded, "naw oh, they just go steal!"
While, Kwame, there's always a time and place for context and periodization, here, at least, it is people, folks as you say in the US, making decisions that have effects upon those whom they know, or don't care, go suffer, irrespective of local geo-politics and regardless of the historic conditions that gave rise to the general conditions. Basta!
Pablo
Sent from my grandfather's typewriter (MM)On Dec 22, 2013, at 4:04 PM, John Mbaku <jmbaku@weber.edu<mailto:jmbaku@weber.edu>> wrote:vimeo.com/user5946750/videos<http://vimeo.com/user5946750/videos>
Dear KZS:
I am sorry, but when it comes to human atrocities in Africa, or anywhere else, I do not buy the "Devil-made-me-do-it" defense. South Sudanese soldiers are killing their fellow citizens and they must be made to account for their actions. Such behavior cannot be excused by reference to some supposed meddling by external actors. As an African, I cannot support any attempt to justify this shameful behavior on the part of individuals who took an oath to defend the people of South Sudan.
On Sunday, December 22, 2013, Emeagwali, Gloria (History) wrote:
The point of Dinka -Nuer conflict over cattle is noted.
Do we have specialists on the list who can comment
in more detail on the nature of their relationship during
and after the colonial era?
Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History & African Studies
History DepartmentFor current archives, visit http://group<http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue>To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com>Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora
________________________________
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of kwame zulu shabazz [kwameshabazz@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 7:17 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - BLAME OBAMA FOR S. SUDAN
Brother John,
There is nothing "nuanced" about ignoring the mostly negative role of western foreign policy in most African conflicts. In fact what you advocate is the antithesis of nuance. The point of nuance would not be simply blaming one side or the other, rather it demands that we analyze the complex relationship between internal and external forces. Stating the obvious and important fact that US/France/UK and the rest have profoundly influenced African geopolitics for the worse is not tantamount to claiming that African leaders are "mindless puppets." Nor does it mean that we that we shouldn't hold the shooters responsible who "kill their own brothers and sisters" (we might question your assumption that black aggressors view their black victims as "brothers and sisters"). As for Sudan, even before Arab and western interference, as I recall, Nuer and Dinkas, for example, were not on brotherly terms. For instance, I seem to remember that cattle raiding was common. Arabization and the increasingly scarcity of resources have combined to make Southern Sudanese conflicts more deadly. Also, the US and Israel have been supporting secession in Sudan since the early 80s. An appeal to nuance needs to have all of these factors on board. I have not followed the current crop of leaders closely, but Garang, I believe, was a masterful strategist. That doesn't mean that his strategy of leaning on the USA and Israel cannot have deleterious outcomes or that we can't hold the USA and Israel accountable for their malfeasance aimed at South Sudanese resources (US/Israel) and undermining Khartoum (Israel).
kzs
On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 6:47 PM, John Mbaku <jmbaku@weber.edu<mailto:jmbaku@weber.edu>> wrote:
How can anyone blame what is happening in South Sudan on outside actors? Who is undertaking the actual killing of people? Are not South Sudan soldiers pulling the trigger and killing their own brothers and sisters? Unless one argues that South Sudan leaders are just mindless puppets being manipulated by outside actors, I cannot see how the West can be blamed for what is currently taking place in South Sudan. The situation needs a more nuanced and contextual analysis and blaming the West is not it!
On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 4:21 PM, kwame zulu shabazz <kwameshabazz@gmail.com<mailto:kwameshabazz@gmail.com>> wrote:
Brother Layi,
"Looking inwards" is really not very different from what the white enslavers said about indigenous Americans, Tazmanians, Aboriginal Australians on and on. The justification was always that the victims were"warlike," or "backwards" or "heathens" thus "incapable of governing themselves." I think we can and must critique all sides of the problem. Yes, absolutely, we should demand that our misleaders do better, but we must also point out that they get lots of help. Looking over your list: the Belgians devastated Congo and, later, an American president, Eisenhower, authorized the assassination of Lumumba. The CIA then helped to prop up Mobutu. Charles Taylor was working with the CIA, magically escaped from a US prison and somehow made it back to West Africa w/out being detected. UNITA in Angola was backed by Reagan. "Outside (western) forces" have profoundly influenced African geopolitics. These are facts, not excuse making.
kzs
On Saturday, December 21, 2013 3:10:40 PM UTC-5, Abegunrin, Olayiwola M. wrote:
My people,
Why do we always blame outside forces for most of our problems in Africa? We need to look inward and see the kind of leadership who have imposed themselves on our peoples and claiming that they were elected to rule us. See what is happening in Democratic Republic of Congo, in Nigeria, in Central African Republic, in Liberia, in Angola and other countries in the continent. Are these so-called leaders committed to serve the African peoples or serve their personal pockets and their neo-colonial masters, especially the western Multinational Corporations that are been used as proxies? No outside power or powers can impose them-selves on us if our visionless, selfish, greedy rulers calling themselves leaders are not sellout or play into the hands of the outside powers. We need to wake up and look inward. People get the kind of government they deserve.
Layi
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com [usaafric...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of william bangura [william....@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 1:06 PM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - BLAME OBAMA FOR S. SUDAN
I am at the juncture where I hate to opine on the problems of sub-Saharan Africa. The architect of the independence of South Sudan, Susan Rice should have been prepared for this craziness in South Sudan where my brethren are suffering due to none of their exploits. President Obama should have critically analyzed the template of "independent" Africa to anticipate the current debacle.
William Bangura (WB)
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THE NEUTRAL SCHOLAR IS AN IGNOBLE MAN. Here, a man must be hot, or be accounted cold, or, perchance, something worse than hot or cold. The lukewarm and the cowardly, will be rejected by earnest men on either side of the controversy." Fredrick Douglass, "The Claims of the Negro, Ethnologically Considered" (1854).
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EVERY ARTIST, EVERY SCIENTIST MUST DECIDE, NOW, WHERE HE STANDS. He has no alternative. There are no impartial observers. Through the destruction, in certain countries, of man's literary heritage, through the propagation of false ideas of national and racial superiority, the artist, the scientist, the writer is challenged. This struggle invades the former cloistered halls of our universities and all her seats of learning. The battlefront is everywhere. There is no sheltered rear. The artist elects to fight for freedom or slavery. I have made my choice!
I had no alternative! - Paul Robeson, speech about the Spanish Civil War at the Albert Hall, London,on 24th June 1937
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THE NEUTRAL SCHOLAR IS AN IGNOBLE MAN. Here, a man must be hot, or be accounted cold, or, perchance, something worse than hot or cold. The lukewarm and the cowardly, will be rejected by earnest men on either side of the controversy." Fredrick Douglass, "The Claims of the Negro, Ethnologically Considered" (1854).
---
EVERY ARTIST, EVERY SCIENTIST MUST DECIDE, NOW, WHERE HE STANDS. He has no alternative. There are no impartial observers. Through the destruction, in certain countries, of man's literary heritage, through the propagation of false ideas of national and racial superiority, the artist, the scientist, the writer is challenged. This struggle invades the former cloistered halls of our universities and all her seats of learning. The battlefront is everywhere. There is no sheltered rear. The artist elects to fight for freedom or slavery. I have made my choice!
I had no alternative! - Paul Robeson, speech about the Spanish Civil War at the Albert Hall, London,on 24th June 1937
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