Indeed the intersection of politics, religion and conquest is complex-
and this applies not only to Judaism but also to Islam and Christianity.
May the atheists have the last word.
Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History & African Studies
vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora
________________________________
From: Cornelius Hamelberg [corneliushamelberg@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 8:40 PM
To: Emeagwali, Gloria (History)
Cc: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Mandela on Israel
It would be much better if your fellow Professor has the last word :
Op-Ed: Israel vs.Islamists: Setting the Record Straight<http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/14287>
On 25 December 2013 02:04, Emeagwali, Gloria (History) <emeagwali@mail.ccsu.edu<mailto:emeagwali@mail.ccsu.edu>> wrote:
The additional passages on 'ouvertures for peace' that you omitted initially, certainly make
a big difference.
The intersection of religion, politics and conquest is indeed quite complex.
Please have the last word on this fascinating subject.
Professor Gloria Emeagwali
africahistory.net<http://africahistory.net>
vimeo.com/user5946750/videos<http://vimeo.com/user5946750/videos>
Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora
________________________________
From: Cornelius Hamelberg [corneliushamelberg@gmail.com<mailto:corneliushamelberg@gmail.com>]
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 8:42 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Cornelius Hamelberg; Emeagwali, Gloria (History)
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Mandela on Israel
The words of Torah are not to be taken lightly. This is not a good time for being glib or facetious – which does not mean of course that even on this day (whilst she is still alive) a very rational Professor Gloria Emeagwali is not free to dispute with the Almighty and His Commandments
Shoftim<https://www.google.se/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4NDKB_enSE548SE548&q=pARASHAT+sHOFTIM>
Year in year out, I've read that passage which occurs in Parashat Shoftim<http://www.azamra.org/Parshah/SHOFTIM.htm> and various commentaries on it a few dozen times. We are talking about the words of Torah<https://www.google.se/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4NDKB_enSE548SE548&q=Torah>. The passage quoted is from Devarim<https://www.google.se/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4NDKB_enSE548SE548&q=Devarim>, also known as The Book of Deuteronomy<https://www.google.se/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4NDKB_enSE548SE548&q=The+Book+of+Deuteronomy>, and here Moses is talking mostly about war against the seven idolatrous Canaanite nations<https://www.google.se/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4NDKB_enSE548SE548&q=the+seven+canaanite+nations>
Whilst you are at it, you might as well take a good look at this<https://www.google.se/search?rlz=1T4NDKB_enSE548SE548&q=The+%22+bloodthirsty%22+passages+of+the+Torah&spell=1&sa=X&ei=aQm5UpmgGoe0ywPLvoG4CA&ved=0CCYQvwUoAA&biw=853&bih=548&dpr=1.5> .
Unfortunately, in the section quoted I accidentally omitted verses 19-20 – the laws of Bal Tashchit<https://www.google.se/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4NDKB_enSE548SE548&q=Devarim++20+%3A+19-20+%3A+the+laws+of+Bal+Tashchit>
Here's the full passage<http://www.chabad.org/parshah/torahreading.asp?AID=36236&p=7&showrashi=true> (including verses 19-20)
The Stone Edition Chumash notes about Deuteronomy 20:10-19 reads as follows:
"10-18. Overtures for Peace. Before Israel goes to war, it must give its enemy an opportunity to make peace. With regard to which enemies fall under this rule, there is disagreement among the major commentators. According to Rashi and Raavad, this applies only to optional wars against enemies other than the seven Canaanite nations. In the wars that Israel was commanded to wage against the Canaanite inhabitants of the Land, however, they were not to offer them peace, not to permit them to live in the Land, under any circumstances. Rambam and Ramban interpret that all nations had to be given the opportunity to make peace, including the Canaanites. According to all, those who were to this offer and accepted it were required to pay taxes, obligate themselves to perform national service , and if they were going to live in the Land, to accept the Seven Noahide Laws.
Ramban offers proof from both Moses and Joshua. Moses called upon the Amorite King Sihon in peace (Numbers 21:21), and Joshua sent peace feelers to the Canaanites (Yerushalmi Shevils 6:1; Devarim Rabbah 5:13) – even though those battles were for lands that were part of Eretz Yisrael. To this Gur Aryeh responds that it was only after the war of conquest began that Canaanites were not to be offered peace. Moses' offer to Sihon was made before any battles were under way, and Joshua sent his messages before the Jews crossed the Jordan. Once they were in Eretz Yisrael, however, the conquest was under way, and it was too late for the Canaanites to avoid the provisions of this passage.
12.... – But if it does not make peace with you... The sages (Sifre) see this verse as a warning that if a city refuses to make peace, it is inevitable that it will eventually attack you if you withdraw without subduing it (Rashi),
15. - That are very distant from you. This verse is the crux of the dispute noted above. According to Rashi the verse indicates that the above laws apply only to cities outside of Eretz Yisrael - very distant from you - but the next three verses which apply specifically to the Canaanites contain no provisions for peace overtures. According to Ramban, the above commandment to call for peace applies to everyone. The only difference between the Canaanites and others is if the peace offer is refused and a war ensues. In that case only the male warriors of outside nations are to be killed and the rest of the population is spared, but the Canaanites must be exterminated as set forth below.
18 – So that they will not teach you. But if individual Canaanites wish to convert, you may accept them (Rashi)
Ramban explains that it was forbidden to permit any pagan Canaanites to remain, even individuals, because their modes of service to their deities would filter into the Jewish community. Even if Jews were not to become idolaters, they would use those abominable practices to serve God. But as time went on the danger was even greater: you will sin to HASHEM, by actually worshipping their idols. The fact is that these dire warnings came true. Israel permitted many Canaanites to remain, and the result was that idolatry did become prevalent among Jews and caused many disasters that are recorded in Scripture
19-20. Preservation of fruit trees. In the midst of a chapter dealing with warfare, which, by definition is destructive, the Torah demands that Jews remain conscious of the need to maintain their regard for the general welfare and cleave to their love for goodness. If people try to remain good even at times that call forth their basest instincts, they will try not to waste even a mustard seed, and they will be able to perfect their character steadily. (Chinuch)
19. – Many days . Since the plural days implies two, the addition of the word days implies three, meaning that the siege must last for at least three days, before an attack. The Sages derive from this that peace offers must be extended for two to three days, and that it is forbidden to begin a siege less than three days before the Sabbath( ( to allow the enemy time for consultations without interfering with the Jewish observance of the Sabbath ( Mizrachi)
Is the tree of the field man...? It is permitted to attack soldiers of the enemy, but a tree is not a soldier; why should Jews feel the need to deprive anyone of the tree`s fruit? (Rashi) According to Ibn Ezra, the flow of the verse is that since human beings need fruit trees for their food, thus the survival of people is synonymous, in a sense, with the survival of their food supply. According, he renders for a man is the tree of the field, i.e., he depends on the tree.
Maharal comments that the comparison of people to trees has far-reaching significance. Just as trees must grow branches, twigs flowers, and fruit to fulfill their purpose, so man is put on earth to be productive and labor to produce moral, intellectual and spiritual truth. This is why the Sages refer to the reward for good deeds as "fruit" for they are the true human growth."
As I typed the last paragraph just now, I thought of our own Prof Toyin Falola....
Must stop here, the galley slave is expecting a host of guests in 75 minutes from now
Sincerely,
We Sweden<http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/corneliushamelberg/>
On Tuesday, 24 December 2013 08:13:06 UTC+1, Emeagwali, Gloria (History) wrote:
"However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance,
do not leave alive anything that breathes. "
Good grief. How vindictive and callous!
Whatever happened to love, peace, understanding and all those wonderful
noble virtues? Are you endorsing this model of genocide?
Professor Gloria Emeagwali
africahistory.net<http://africahistory.net><http://africahistory.net>
vimeo.com/user5946750/videos<http://vimeo.com/user5946750/videos><http://vimeo.com/user5946750/videos>
Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora
________________________________
From: Cornelius Hamelberg [cornelius...@gmail.com<mailto:cornelius...@gmail.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>]
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 11:09 PM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
Cc: Emeagwali, Gloria (History)
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Mandela on Israel
A long time ago, before the Geneva Convention etc:
"
10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. 15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.
16 However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy[a<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+20#fen-NIV-5445a>] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God."( Deuteronomy 20: 10-20)
On Sunday, 22 December 2013 14:56:55 UTC+1, Emeagwali, Gloria (History) wrote:
< In 1990, Mandela likened Israel to a "terrorist state" and declared that "we do not regard the PLO as a terrorist organization.
If one has to refer to any parties as a terrorist state, one might refer to the Israeli government because they are the people
who are slaughtering defenseless and innocent Arabs in the occupied territories".>
Quite a powerful statement by Madiba.
Professor Gloria Emeagwali
africahistory.net<http://africahistory.net><http://africahistory.net><http://africahistory.net>
vimeo.com/user5946750/videos<http://vimeo.com/user5946750/videos><http://vimeo.com/user5946750/videos><http://vimeo.com/user5946750/videos>
Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora
________________________________
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx> [usaafric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>] On Behalf Of Cornelius Hamelberg [cornelius...@gmail.com<mailto:cornelius...@gmail.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>]
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 8:06 AM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Mandela on Israel
Madiba Nelson Mandela did from time to time make statements that were strongly supportive of the Palestinian cause but this opinion piece by Giulio Meotti<https://www.google.se/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=hts&oq=&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4NDKB_enSE548SE548&q=Giulio+Meotti> takes the biscuit:
Op-Ed: Mandela Was an Enemy of Israel<http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/14199>
On Saturday, 14 December 2013 23:27:56 UTC+1, seguno2013 wrote:
Thanks for this information. No wonder the Israeli president or Prime Minister did not attend the memorial service of Madiba.
Segun Ogungbemi
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 14, 2013, at 10:18 PM, "Abegunrin, Olayiwola M." <oabegunrin@Howard.edu> wrote:
>
> Get it straight, it was President Carter's book titled- "Palestine Peace not Apartheid," published in 2006. President Jimmy Carter prescribes steps that must be taken for the two States, Israeli and Palestine side by side to share "the Holy Land," without a system of apartheid or the constant fear of terrorism.
> Mandela's Party-African National Congress (ANC) was a very close ally of Palestinians during the struggle for the liberation of South Africa from the apartheid rule, while the Israeli Government was a close ally of the apartheid government in South Africa and even helped the apartheid government in developing nuclear weapon. South Africa under the apartheid rule was the only African country that developed nuclear weapon and it was with the help of the Israeli Government in the 1970s. The South African nuclear weapon was destroyed in 1992, during the negotiations between the White apartheid government and the ANC that led to black majority rule that elected Nelson Mandela as the first democratically elected President of South Africa in 1994. Go and read "The Unspoken Alliance: Israel's Secret Relationship With Apartheid South Africa," by Sasha Polakow-Suransky, published in 2010.
> Layi
>
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx> [usaafric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>] On Behalf Of Emeagwali, Gloria (History) [emea...@mail.ccsu.edu<mailto:emea...@mail.ccsu.edu><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>]
> Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 12:57 PM
> To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
> Cc: Wanazuoni; Chambi Chachage
> Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Mandela on Israel
>
> For your information, I recall that President Jimmy Carter called Israel an apartheid state .
> Does his statement hurt or help your story line?Add a link to his book, all the same.
>
>
> Professor Gloria Emeagwali
> vimeo.com/user5946750/videos<http://vimeo.com/user5946750/videos><http://vimeo.com/user5946750/videos><http://vimeo.com/user5946750/videos><http://vimeo.com/user5946750/videos>
> Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora
> ________________________________________
> From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx> [usaafric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>] On Behalf Of Cornelius Hamelberg [cornelius...@gmail.com<mailto:cornelius...@gmail.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>]
> Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 8:46 AM
> To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
> Cc: Wanazuoni; Chambi Chachage
> Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Mandela on Israel
>
> As has been admitted by the real author of the hoax – a Palestinian - that letter was not written by Madiba Nelson Mandela – and we all know that Madiba never equated and would never equate Israel with "an apartheid system" or what was Apartheid South Africa.
>
> We also know that on many occasions Madiba issued statements that were strongly supportive of the Palestinian cause.
>
> Just as Israel too was anxious for the Nigeria- Biafra Civil War to be speedily ended.<https://www.google.se/search?rlz=1T4NDKB_enSE548SE548&q=Israel+on+the+Nigeria-Biafra+Civil+War&oq=Israel+on+the+Nigeria-Biafra+Civil+War&gs_l=serp.12...5852.5852.0.7541.1.1.0.0.0.0.29.29.1.1.0.ernk_timepromotiona...0...1.1.32.serp..1.0.0.-TSog_IeF5Q>
>
> However let's be clear about this:
>
> Israel is not an apartheid state – Lecture by Denis Prager<http://www.israpundit.com/archives/53525>
>
> Not Apartheid<http://www.israpundit.com/archives/4080>
>
> Israel and the Apartheid Slander by Richard J. Goldstone<http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/01/opinion/israel-and-the-apartheid-slander.html?_r=3&>
>
> The myth of 'apartheid' Israel<http://www.israpundit.com/archives/3988>
>
> Is Israel an Apartheid State?<http://www.israpundit.com/archives/31437>
>
> I rest my case and N. B. if Israel were an Apartheid state – God forbid - I would have joined Hamas or Islamic Jihad and would be fighting on the side of the Pals, tooth and nail not to erect the 23rd Arab state in the area or a Sharia state called the Islamic Republic of Palestine in which non-Muslims would be dhimmis<https://www.google.se/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4NDKB_enSE548SE548&q=dhimmis> – I would be fighting to help dismantle such an Apartheid State...
>
> Sincerely,
>
> We Sweden<http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/corneliushamelberg/>
>
>
> On Friday, 13 December 2013 15:06:59 UTC+1, Chambi Chachage wrote:
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> From:
> To: cham...@yahoo.com<mailto:cham...@yahoo.com><javascript:>
> Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 11:55 AM
> Subject: FW: Mandela had a moral compass; no double standards:
>
> Some shining messages from Mandela for the Israelis.
> Most of whom are living in a spécial bunker of their own.
>
> ________________________________
> Subject: Fwd: Mandela had a moral compass; no double standards:
> From: nahla....@hotmail.com<mailto:nahla....@hotmail.com><javascript:>
> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 07:43:59 +0100
> To: ad...@arabooks.ch<mailto:ad...@arabooks.ch><javascript:>
> A must read.
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: Qazi Shaukat Fareed <far...@un.org<mailto:far...@un.org><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>>
> Date: 12 décembre 2013 02:54:03 HNEC
> Subject: Mandela had a moral compass; no double standards:
>
> Subject: Mandela had a moral compass; no double standards:
>
> please circulate..
>
> Mandela had a moral compass; no double standards : God bless his soul
>
> Nelson Mandela's Letter To Tom Friedman, About The Palestinian Tragedy
>
> MEMO
> March 28, 2001
>
> To: Thomas L. Friedman (columnist New York Times)
> From: Nelson Mandela (former President South Africa)
>
> Dear Thomas,
>
> I know that you and I long for peace in the Middle East, but before you continue to talk about necessary conditions from an Israeli perspective, you need to know what's on my mind. Where to begin? How about 1964. Let me quote my own words during my trial.
>
> They are true today as they were then:
> "I have fought against white domination and I have fought against black domination. I have cherished the ideal of a democratic and free society in which all persons live together in harmony and with equal opportunities. It is an ideal which I hope to live for and to achieve. But if needs be, it is an ideal for which I am prepared to die."
>
> Today the world, black and white, recognise that apartheid has no future. In South Africa it has been ended by our own decisive mass action in order to build peace and security. That mass campaign of defiance and other
> actions could only culminate in the establishment of democracy. Perhaps it is strange for you to observe the situation in Palestine or more specifically, the structure of political and cultural relationships between Palestinians and Israelis, as an apartheid system. This is because you incorrectly think that the problem of Palestine began in 1967.
> This was demonstrated in your recent column "Bush's First Memo" in the New York Times on March 27, 2001.
> You seem to be surprised to hear that there are still problems of 1948 to be solved, the most important component of which is the right to return of Palestinian refugees.
>
> The Palestinian-Israeli conflict is not just an issue of military occupation and Israel is not a country that was established "normally" and happened to occupy another country in 1967. Palestinians are not struggling for a "state" but for freedom, liberation and equality, just like we were struggling for freedom in South Africa.
>
> In the last few years, and especially during the reign of the Labour Party, Israel showed that it was not even willing to return what it occupied in 1967; that settlements remain, Jerusalem would be under exclusive Israeli sovereignty, and Palestinians would not have an independent state, but would be under Israeli economic domination with
> Israeli control of borders, land, air, water and sea.
>
> Israel was not thinking of a "state" but of "separation". The value of separation is measured in terms of the ability of Israel to keep the Jewish state Jewish, and not to have a Palestinian minority that could have the opportunity to become a majority at some time in the future. If this takes place, it would force Israel to either become a secular democratic or bi-national state, or to turn into a state of apartheid not only de facto, but also de jure.
>
> Thomas, if you follow the polls in Israel for the last 30 or 40 years, you clearly find a vulgar racism that includes a third of the population who openly declare themselves to be racist. This racism is of the nature of "I hate Arabs" and "I wish Arabs would be dead". If you also follow the judicial system in Israel you will see there is discrimination against Palestinians, and if you further consider the 1967 occupied territories you will find there are already two judicial systems in operation that represent two different approaches to human life: one for Palestinian life and the other for Jewish life. Additionally there are two different approaches to property and to land. Palestinian property is
> not recognised as private property because it can be confiscated.
>
> As to the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, there is an additional factor. The so-called "Palestinian autonomous areas" are bantustans. These are restricted entities within the power structure of the Israeli apartheid system.
>
> The Palestinian state cannot be the by-product of the Jewish state, just in order to keep the Jewish purity of Israel. Israel's racial discrimination is daily life of most Palestinians. Since Israel is a Jewish state, Israeli Jews are able to accrue special rights which non-Jews cannot do. Palestinian Arabs have no place in a "Jewish" state.
>
> Apartheid is a crime against humanity. Israel has deprived millions of Palestinians of their liberty and property. It has perpetuated a system of gross racial discrimination and inequality. It has systematically incarcerated and tortured thousands of Palestinians, contrary to the rules of international law. It has, in particular, waged a war against a civilian population, in particular children.
>
> The responses made by South Africa to human rights abuses emanating from the removal policies and apartheid policies respectively, shed light on what Israeli society must necessarily go through before one can speak of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East and an end to its apartheid policies.
>
> Thomas, I'm not abandoning Mideast diplomacy. But I'm not going to indulge you the way your supporters do. If you want peace and democracy, I will support you. If you want formal apartheid, we will not support you. If you want to support racial discrimination and ethnic cleansing, we will oppose you. When you figure out what you're about, give me a call.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
> For current archives, visit http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
> For previous archives, visit http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:USAAfric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue-
> unsub...@googlegroups.com<mailto:unsub...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
> For current archives, visit http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
> For previous archives, visit http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:USAAfric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue-
> unsub...@googlegroups.com<mailto:unsub...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
> For current archives, visit http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
> For previous archives, visit http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:USAAfric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue-
> unsub...@googlegroups.com<mailto:unsub...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
For current archives, visit http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
For previous archives, visit http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:USAAfric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue-
unsub...@googlegroups.com<mailto:unsub...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
For current archives, visit http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
For previous archives, visit http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue-
unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
and this applies not only to Judaism but also to Islam and Christianity.
May the atheists have the last word.
Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History & African Studies
vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora
________________________________
From: Cornelius Hamelberg [corneliushamelberg@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 8:40 PM
To: Emeagwali, Gloria (History)
Cc: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Mandela on Israel
It would be much better if your fellow Professor has the last word :
Op-Ed: Israel vs.Islamists: Setting the Record Straight<http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/14287>
On 25 December 2013 02:04, Emeagwali, Gloria (History) <emeagwali@mail.ccsu.edu<mailto:emeagwali@mail.ccsu.edu>> wrote:
The additional passages on 'ouvertures for peace' that you omitted initially, certainly make
a big difference.
The intersection of religion, politics and conquest is indeed quite complex.
Please have the last word on this fascinating subject.
Professor Gloria Emeagwali
africahistory.net<http://africahistory.net>
vimeo.com/user5946750/videos<http://vimeo.com/user5946750/videos>
Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora
________________________________
From: Cornelius Hamelberg [corneliushamelberg@gmail.com<mailto:corneliushamelberg@gmail.com>]
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 8:42 AM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Cornelius Hamelberg; Emeagwali, Gloria (History)
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Mandela on Israel
The words of Torah are not to be taken lightly. This is not a good time for being glib or facetious – which does not mean of course that even on this day (whilst she is still alive) a very rational Professor Gloria Emeagwali is not free to dispute with the Almighty and His Commandments
Shoftim<https://www.google.se/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4NDKB_enSE548SE548&q=pARASHAT+sHOFTIM>
Year in year out, I've read that passage which occurs in Parashat Shoftim<http://www.azamra.org/Parshah/SHOFTIM.htm> and various commentaries on it a few dozen times. We are talking about the words of Torah<https://www.google.se/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4NDKB_enSE548SE548&q=Torah>. The passage quoted is from Devarim<https://www.google.se/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4NDKB_enSE548SE548&q=Devarim>, also known as The Book of Deuteronomy<https://www.google.se/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4NDKB_enSE548SE548&q=The+Book+of+Deuteronomy>, and here Moses is talking mostly about war against the seven idolatrous Canaanite nations<https://www.google.se/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4NDKB_enSE548SE548&q=the+seven+canaanite+nations>
Whilst you are at it, you might as well take a good look at this<https://www.google.se/search?rlz=1T4NDKB_enSE548SE548&q=The+%22+bloodthirsty%22+passages+of+the+Torah&spell=1&sa=X&ei=aQm5UpmgGoe0ywPLvoG4CA&ved=0CCYQvwUoAA&biw=853&bih=548&dpr=1.5> .
Unfortunately, in the section quoted I accidentally omitted verses 19-20 – the laws of Bal Tashchit<https://www.google.se/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4NDKB_enSE548SE548&q=Devarim++20+%3A+19-20+%3A+the+laws+of+Bal+Tashchit>
Here's the full passage<http://www.chabad.org/parshah/torahreading.asp?AID=36236&p=7&showrashi=true> (including verses 19-20)
The Stone Edition Chumash notes about Deuteronomy 20:10-19 reads as follows:
"10-18. Overtures for Peace. Before Israel goes to war, it must give its enemy an opportunity to make peace. With regard to which enemies fall under this rule, there is disagreement among the major commentators. According to Rashi and Raavad, this applies only to optional wars against enemies other than the seven Canaanite nations. In the wars that Israel was commanded to wage against the Canaanite inhabitants of the Land, however, they were not to offer them peace, not to permit them to live in the Land, under any circumstances. Rambam and Ramban interpret that all nations had to be given the opportunity to make peace, including the Canaanites. According to all, those who were to this offer and accepted it were required to pay taxes, obligate themselves to perform national service , and if they were going to live in the Land, to accept the Seven Noahide Laws.
Ramban offers proof from both Moses and Joshua. Moses called upon the Amorite King Sihon in peace (Numbers 21:21), and Joshua sent peace feelers to the Canaanites (Yerushalmi Shevils 6:1; Devarim Rabbah 5:13) – even though those battles were for lands that were part of Eretz Yisrael. To this Gur Aryeh responds that it was only after the war of conquest began that Canaanites were not to be offered peace. Moses' offer to Sihon was made before any battles were under way, and Joshua sent his messages before the Jews crossed the Jordan. Once they were in Eretz Yisrael, however, the conquest was under way, and it was too late for the Canaanites to avoid the provisions of this passage.
12.... – But if it does not make peace with you... The sages (Sifre) see this verse as a warning that if a city refuses to make peace, it is inevitable that it will eventually attack you if you withdraw without subduing it (Rashi),
15. - That are very distant from you. This verse is the crux of the dispute noted above. According to Rashi the verse indicates that the above laws apply only to cities outside of Eretz Yisrael - very distant from you - but the next three verses which apply specifically to the Canaanites contain no provisions for peace overtures. According to Ramban, the above commandment to call for peace applies to everyone. The only difference between the Canaanites and others is if the peace offer is refused and a war ensues. In that case only the male warriors of outside nations are to be killed and the rest of the population is spared, but the Canaanites must be exterminated as set forth below.
18 – So that they will not teach you. But if individual Canaanites wish to convert, you may accept them (Rashi)
Ramban explains that it was forbidden to permit any pagan Canaanites to remain, even individuals, because their modes of service to their deities would filter into the Jewish community. Even if Jews were not to become idolaters, they would use those abominable practices to serve God. But as time went on the danger was even greater: you will sin to HASHEM, by actually worshipping their idols. The fact is that these dire warnings came true. Israel permitted many Canaanites to remain, and the result was that idolatry did become prevalent among Jews and caused many disasters that are recorded in Scripture
19-20. Preservation of fruit trees. In the midst of a chapter dealing with warfare, which, by definition is destructive, the Torah demands that Jews remain conscious of the need to maintain their regard for the general welfare and cleave to their love for goodness. If people try to remain good even at times that call forth their basest instincts, they will try not to waste even a mustard seed, and they will be able to perfect their character steadily. (Chinuch)
19. – Many days . Since the plural days implies two, the addition of the word days implies three, meaning that the siege must last for at least three days, before an attack. The Sages derive from this that peace offers must be extended for two to three days, and that it is forbidden to begin a siege less than three days before the Sabbath( ( to allow the enemy time for consultations without interfering with the Jewish observance of the Sabbath ( Mizrachi)
Is the tree of the field man...? It is permitted to attack soldiers of the enemy, but a tree is not a soldier; why should Jews feel the need to deprive anyone of the tree`s fruit? (Rashi) According to Ibn Ezra, the flow of the verse is that since human beings need fruit trees for their food, thus the survival of people is synonymous, in a sense, with the survival of their food supply. According, he renders for a man is the tree of the field, i.e., he depends on the tree.
Maharal comments that the comparison of people to trees has far-reaching significance. Just as trees must grow branches, twigs flowers, and fruit to fulfill their purpose, so man is put on earth to be productive and labor to produce moral, intellectual and spiritual truth. This is why the Sages refer to the reward for good deeds as "fruit" for they are the true human growth."
As I typed the last paragraph just now, I thought of our own Prof Toyin Falola....
Must stop here, the galley slave is expecting a host of guests in 75 minutes from now
Sincerely,
We Sweden<http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/corneliushamelberg/>
On Tuesday, 24 December 2013 08:13:06 UTC+1, Emeagwali, Gloria (History) wrote:
"However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance,
do not leave alive anything that breathes. "
Good grief. How vindictive and callous!
Whatever happened to love, peace, understanding and all those wonderful
noble virtues? Are you endorsing this model of genocide?
Professor Gloria Emeagwali
africahistory.net<http://africahistory.net><http://africahistory.net>
vimeo.com/user5946750/videos<http://vimeo.com/user5946750/videos><http://vimeo.com/user5946750/videos>
Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora
________________________________
From: Cornelius Hamelberg [cornelius...@gmail.com<mailto:cornelius...@gmail.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>]
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 11:09 PM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
Cc: Emeagwali, Gloria (History)
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Mandela on Israel
A long time ago, before the Geneva Convention etc:
"
10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. 15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.
16 However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy[a<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+20#fen-NIV-5445a>] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God."( Deuteronomy 20: 10-20)
On Sunday, 22 December 2013 14:56:55 UTC+1, Emeagwali, Gloria (History) wrote:
< In 1990, Mandela likened Israel to a "terrorist state" and declared that "we do not regard the PLO as a terrorist organization.
If one has to refer to any parties as a terrorist state, one might refer to the Israeli government because they are the people
who are slaughtering defenseless and innocent Arabs in the occupied territories".>
Quite a powerful statement by Madiba.
Professor Gloria Emeagwali
africahistory.net<http://africahistory.net><http://africahistory.net><http://africahistory.net>
vimeo.com/user5946750/videos<http://vimeo.com/user5946750/videos><http://vimeo.com/user5946750/videos><http://vimeo.com/user5946750/videos>
Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora
________________________________
From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx> [usaafric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>] On Behalf Of Cornelius Hamelberg [cornelius...@gmail.com<mailto:cornelius...@gmail.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>]
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 8:06 AM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Mandela on Israel
Madiba Nelson Mandela did from time to time make statements that were strongly supportive of the Palestinian cause but this opinion piece by Giulio Meotti<https://www.google.se/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=hts&oq=&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4NDKB_enSE548SE548&q=Giulio+Meotti> takes the biscuit:
Op-Ed: Mandela Was an Enemy of Israel<http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/14199>
On Saturday, 14 December 2013 23:27:56 UTC+1, seguno2013 wrote:
Thanks for this information. No wonder the Israeli president or Prime Minister did not attend the memorial service of Madiba.
Segun Ogungbemi
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 14, 2013, at 10:18 PM, "Abegunrin, Olayiwola M." <oabegunrin@Howard.edu> wrote:
>
> Get it straight, it was President Carter's book titled- "Palestine Peace not Apartheid," published in 2006. President Jimmy Carter prescribes steps that must be taken for the two States, Israeli and Palestine side by side to share "the Holy Land," without a system of apartheid or the constant fear of terrorism.
> Mandela's Party-African National Congress (ANC) was a very close ally of Palestinians during the struggle for the liberation of South Africa from the apartheid rule, while the Israeli Government was a close ally of the apartheid government in South Africa and even helped the apartheid government in developing nuclear weapon. South Africa under the apartheid rule was the only African country that developed nuclear weapon and it was with the help of the Israeli Government in the 1970s. The South African nuclear weapon was destroyed in 1992, during the negotiations between the White apartheid government and the ANC that led to black majority rule that elected Nelson Mandela as the first democratically elected President of South Africa in 1994. Go and read "The Unspoken Alliance: Israel's Secret Relationship With Apartheid South Africa," by Sasha Polakow-Suransky, published in 2010.
> Layi
>
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx> [usaafric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>] On Behalf Of Emeagwali, Gloria (History) [emea...@mail.ccsu.edu<mailto:emea...@mail.ccsu.edu><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>]
> Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 12:57 PM
> To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
> Cc: Wanazuoni; Chambi Chachage
> Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Mandela on Israel
>
> For your information, I recall that President Jimmy Carter called Israel an apartheid state .
> Does his statement hurt or help your story line?Add a link to his book, all the same.
>
>
> Professor Gloria Emeagwali
> vimeo.com/user5946750/videos<http://vimeo.com/user5946750/videos><http://vimeo.com/user5946750/videos><http://vimeo.com/user5946750/videos><http://vimeo.com/user5946750/videos>
> Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora
> ________________________________________
> From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx> [usaafric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>] On Behalf Of Cornelius Hamelberg [cornelius...@gmail.com<mailto:cornelius...@gmail.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>]
> Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 8:46 AM
> To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
> Cc: Wanazuoni; Chambi Chachage
> Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Mandela on Israel
>
> As has been admitted by the real author of the hoax – a Palestinian - that letter was not written by Madiba Nelson Mandela – and we all know that Madiba never equated and would never equate Israel with "an apartheid system" or what was Apartheid South Africa.
>
> We also know that on many occasions Madiba issued statements that were strongly supportive of the Palestinian cause.
>
> Just as Israel too was anxious for the Nigeria- Biafra Civil War to be speedily ended.<https://www.google.se/search?rlz=1T4NDKB_enSE548SE548&q=Israel+on+the+Nigeria-Biafra+Civil+War&oq=Israel+on+the+Nigeria-Biafra+Civil+War&gs_l=serp.12...5852.5852.0.7541.1.1.0.0.0.0.29.29.1.1.0.ernk_timepromotiona...0...1.1.32.serp..1.0.0.-TSog_IeF5Q>
>
> However let's be clear about this:
>
> Israel is not an apartheid state – Lecture by Denis Prager<http://www.israpundit.com/archives/53525>
>
> Not Apartheid<http://www.israpundit.com/archives/4080>
>
> Israel and the Apartheid Slander by Richard J. Goldstone<http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/01/opinion/israel-and-the-apartheid-slander.html?_r=3&>
>
> The myth of 'apartheid' Israel<http://www.israpundit.com/archives/3988>
>
> Is Israel an Apartheid State?<http://www.israpundit.com/archives/31437>
>
> I rest my case and N. B. if Israel were an Apartheid state – God forbid - I would have joined Hamas or Islamic Jihad and would be fighting on the side of the Pals, tooth and nail not to erect the 23rd Arab state in the area or a Sharia state called the Islamic Republic of Palestine in which non-Muslims would be dhimmis<https://www.google.se/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4NDKB_enSE548SE548&q=dhimmis> – I would be fighting to help dismantle such an Apartheid State...
>
> Sincerely,
>
> We Sweden<http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/corneliushamelberg/>
>
>
> On Friday, 13 December 2013 15:06:59 UTC+1, Chambi Chachage wrote:
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> From:
> To: cham...@yahoo.com<mailto:cham...@yahoo.com><javascript:>
> Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 11:55 AM
> Subject: FW: Mandela had a moral compass; no double standards:
>
> Some shining messages from Mandela for the Israelis.
> Most of whom are living in a spécial bunker of their own.
>
> ________________________________
> Subject: Fwd: Mandela had a moral compass; no double standards:
> From: nahla....@hotmail.com<mailto:nahla....@hotmail.com><javascript:>
> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 07:43:59 +0100
> To: ad...@arabooks.ch<mailto:ad...@arabooks.ch><javascript:>
> A must read.
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: Qazi Shaukat Fareed <far...@un.org<mailto:far...@un.org><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>>
> Date: 12 décembre 2013 02:54:03 HNEC
> Subject: Mandela had a moral compass; no double standards:
>
> Subject: Mandela had a moral compass; no double standards:
>
> please circulate..
>
> Mandela had a moral compass; no double standards : God bless his soul
>
> Nelson Mandela's Letter To Tom Friedman, About The Palestinian Tragedy
>
> MEMO
> March 28, 2001
>
> To: Thomas L. Friedman (columnist New York Times)
> From: Nelson Mandela (former President South Africa)
>
> Dear Thomas,
>
> I know that you and I long for peace in the Middle East, but before you continue to talk about necessary conditions from an Israeli perspective, you need to know what's on my mind. Where to begin? How about 1964. Let me quote my own words during my trial.
>
> They are true today as they were then:
> "I have fought against white domination and I have fought against black domination. I have cherished the ideal of a democratic and free society in which all persons live together in harmony and with equal opportunities. It is an ideal which I hope to live for and to achieve. But if needs be, it is an ideal for which I am prepared to die."
>
> Today the world, black and white, recognise that apartheid has no future. In South Africa it has been ended by our own decisive mass action in order to build peace and security. That mass campaign of defiance and other
> actions could only culminate in the establishment of democracy. Perhaps it is strange for you to observe the situation in Palestine or more specifically, the structure of political and cultural relationships between Palestinians and Israelis, as an apartheid system. This is because you incorrectly think that the problem of Palestine began in 1967.
> This was demonstrated in your recent column "Bush's First Memo" in the New York Times on March 27, 2001.
> You seem to be surprised to hear that there are still problems of 1948 to be solved, the most important component of which is the right to return of Palestinian refugees.
>
> The Palestinian-Israeli conflict is not just an issue of military occupation and Israel is not a country that was established "normally" and happened to occupy another country in 1967. Palestinians are not struggling for a "state" but for freedom, liberation and equality, just like we were struggling for freedom in South Africa.
>
> In the last few years, and especially during the reign of the Labour Party, Israel showed that it was not even willing to return what it occupied in 1967; that settlements remain, Jerusalem would be under exclusive Israeli sovereignty, and Palestinians would not have an independent state, but would be under Israeli economic domination with
> Israeli control of borders, land, air, water and sea.
>
> Israel was not thinking of a "state" but of "separation". The value of separation is measured in terms of the ability of Israel to keep the Jewish state Jewish, and not to have a Palestinian minority that could have the opportunity to become a majority at some time in the future. If this takes place, it would force Israel to either become a secular democratic or bi-national state, or to turn into a state of apartheid not only de facto, but also de jure.
>
> Thomas, if you follow the polls in Israel for the last 30 or 40 years, you clearly find a vulgar racism that includes a third of the population who openly declare themselves to be racist. This racism is of the nature of "I hate Arabs" and "I wish Arabs would be dead". If you also follow the judicial system in Israel you will see there is discrimination against Palestinians, and if you further consider the 1967 occupied territories you will find there are already two judicial systems in operation that represent two different approaches to human life: one for Palestinian life and the other for Jewish life. Additionally there are two different approaches to property and to land. Palestinian property is
> not recognised as private property because it can be confiscated.
>
> As to the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, there is an additional factor. The so-called "Palestinian autonomous areas" are bantustans. These are restricted entities within the power structure of the Israeli apartheid system.
>
> The Palestinian state cannot be the by-product of the Jewish state, just in order to keep the Jewish purity of Israel. Israel's racial discrimination is daily life of most Palestinians. Since Israel is a Jewish state, Israeli Jews are able to accrue special rights which non-Jews cannot do. Palestinian Arabs have no place in a "Jewish" state.
>
> Apartheid is a crime against humanity. Israel has deprived millions of Palestinians of their liberty and property. It has perpetuated a system of gross racial discrimination and inequality. It has systematically incarcerated and tortured thousands of Palestinians, contrary to the rules of international law. It has, in particular, waged a war against a civilian population, in particular children.
>
> The responses made by South Africa to human rights abuses emanating from the removal policies and apartheid policies respectively, shed light on what Israeli society must necessarily go through before one can speak of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East and an end to its apartheid policies.
>
> Thomas, I'm not abandoning Mideast diplomacy. But I'm not going to indulge you the way your supporters do. If you want peace and democracy, I will support you. If you want formal apartheid, we will not support you. If you want to support racial discrimination and ethnic cleansing, we will oppose you. When you figure out what you're about, give me a call.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
> For current archives, visit http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
> For previous archives, visit http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:USAAfric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue-
> unsub...@googlegroups.com<mailto:unsub...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
> For current archives, visit http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
> For previous archives, visit http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:USAAfric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue-
> unsub...@googlegroups.com<mailto:unsub...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
> For current archives, visit http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
> For previous archives, visit http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:USAAfric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue-
> unsub...@googlegroups.com<mailto:unsub...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
For current archives, visit http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
For previous archives, visit http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com<mailto:USAAfric...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue-
unsub...@googlegroups.com<mailto:unsub...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com<mailto:usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com><https://webmail.ccsu.edu/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
For current archives, visit http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
For previous archives, visit http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue-
unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.