'Sorry, your contribution adds nothing to the quality and seriousness of this debate.
No one infers mass suicide or mass emigration but the facts against state failure are irrefutable.
What will help is collective resolve to figure out how best to extricate a country we all love
from the morass of decay and incompetence. ' Ogundimu
So how does your view differ from the views expressed earlier?
GE
............................................................
Professor Adeshina,
Thanks for inviting me to express my opinion but if I may humbly say so,
you miss the point here. Nobody is saying that everything is fine and dandy.
What we are arguing is that the situation can change and the future can be fine
if people quit agonizing - and implement a workable plan.
Ok so you have a GetoutofAsoRockNow plan. Right? At least it's a plan.
What's next? Fliers, posters, signatures, blogs, demonstrations, strikes .......?
It can go to the next level ---- but it seems to me that to keep shaking one's head and muttering
'Nigeria is a failed state,' as some people do, accomplishes very little indeed .
It signals resignation and defeatism and may even be counter-inspirational.
Professor Gloria Emeagwali
africahistory.net
vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora
Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History & African Studies
History Department
Central Connecticut State University
New Britain
CT 06050
africahistory.net
vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora
________________________________________
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gmail [ogundimu3@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 4:58 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Failed state : In defence of Wole Soyinka
Gloria:
Sorry, your contribution adds nothing to the quality and seriousness of this debate. No one infers mass suicide or mass emigration but the facts against state failure are irrefutable.
What will help is collective resolve to figure out how best to extricate a country we all love from the morass of decay and incompetence. Thank you.
Folu
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 15, 2014, at 3:39 PM, "Emeagwali, Gloria (History)" <emeagwali@mail.ccsu.edu> wrote:
>
> ....and since it is a' failed' state should all Nigerians just pack their bag and baggage and migrate to Ghana
> or should Nigerians just jump en masse into the River Niger.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Professor Gloria Emeagwali
> Prof. of History & African Studies
> History Department
> Central Connecticut State University
> New Britain
> CT 06050
> africahistory.net
> vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
> Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora
> ________________________________________
> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Prof. Segun Ogungbemi [seguno2013@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 2:18 PM
> To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Failed state : In defence of Wole Soyinka
>
> For those who on the basis of ethnicity or blind-eye-loyalty to the failing state of things in this country right now are the enemies of this country. I had argued elsewhere that what makes some people to view Nigeria a failed State or a failing State are:
> 1. the collapse of law and order,
> 2. the inability of the political leaders to turn the wealth of the nation into prosperity,
> 3. the chaotic condition of infrastructure,
> 4.devaluation of educational values,
> 5. insecurity among others.
> Advanced countries have impressive infrastructure, poverty is drastically reduced, their education sector is properly enhanced with adequate funding, the security network gives their people confidence and there is law and order. Americans are loyal and patriotic to their country because of those things that assure them that wherever they are, the government cares for them.
> Nigerians can be loyal and patriotic if their government cares for like as it is done in other climes.
> But when there is no collective or national interest, there cannot be pride of being a Nigerian. Consider the number of Nigerians today who will be happy to live and work in the US because of frustration.
> Nigeria currency was stronger than the US dollars in the 70s to partly early 80s when we were Federal Government scholars in the US. But today the naira is between 160 and 170 to the dollar.
> How do you assess this kind of scenario without saying that Nigeria is retrogressive? If people say that Nigeria is a failed State or a failing State, honestly they are not far from stating the obvious.
> We should be honest enough to accept our failure as a nation and be determined to change our ugly side of the coin. And I believe we can.
>
> Prof. Segun Ogungbemi
> Department of Philosophy
> Adekunle Ajasin University
> Akungba-Akoko, Ondo State
> Nigeria.
> +08033041371,08024670952
> seguno2013@gmail.com
>
>> On May 15, 2014, at 5:23 PM, "'kayode Ketefe' via USA Africa Dialogue Series" <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> Failed state : In defence of Wole Soyinka
>>
>>
>> KAYODE KETEFE
>>
>>
>> A number of vested interests have unleashed a deluge of venomous vituperative on the cyberspace within the last few days in reaction to the description of Nigeria as a "nation in chaos" by professor Wole Soyinka in his recent interview on Cable Network News (CNN)The learned professor had over the years, consistently warned that Nigeria was becoming or heading towards being a failed state. Now, while lamenting the horrible state of insecurity in the country, Soyinka had said, inter alia, "This is a government which is not only in denial mentally, but in denial about certain obvious steps to take..."
>> The latest in the cacophony of voices that greeted the professor's unpalatable view is the South South Peoples Forum, SSPF, whose president, Dr. Joe Ambakederemo, has said the conclusion of Soyinka that the government has failed was totally wrong.
>> Ambakederemo, was quoted in the dailies as saying that "Professor Soyinka has debased the intellectual respect he had garnered in the past. We have a duty to remind Soyinka that his conclusions are not just biased, they are devious and laced with mischief to pull down the government. They are equally erroneous and miscalculated to lay the foundation for civil unrest in the country."
>> Despite this outburst and denial of the Nigeria's true chaotic status, Ambakederemo never tendered a single logical point in refutation of the professor's argument or to support his own position, having been contented just with deploying mere vulgar abuses and uncouth utterances. To be objective, there are criteria that define a failed or a failing state against which Nigeria must be assessed to determine its status. First and foremost, any nation that worth its salt must be able to guarantee the safety of lives and properties of its citizenry. In addition, a thriving nation must have a government whose authority is real and enforced through the geographical enclosure it calls its territory. The nation must have citizenry that recognise the government and obey its laws and orders. The nation must also be able to provide enabling environment for its citizens to enjoy their rights and engage in their diverse existential pursuits. A nation, stricto
>> sensu, should be able to habitually manage its own problems.
>> These qualities of a real, thriving functional nation seem to vividly conveyed by the preamble to the American Declaration of Independence, 1776, which states inter alia thus "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments is instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
>> "That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness." The above-quoted political aphorisms also underline the doctrine of social contract between the governors and the governed. Under the social contract doctrine the provision of security also constitutes the bedrock of the nationhood as the people are presumed to have surrendered the individualist rights to self-help in exchange for collective protection offered by the state machinery.
>> To start with, on the issue of security, no Nigerian alive can honestly claim to feel safe.Insecurity has always abounded though,, but what we have been witnessing in recent times, specifically from the past three or four years, is gradually a dawning reality that the matter has gone out of hands. At no other times has the collapse of security in Nigeria been this total. This grim resignation is illustrated by the fact that majority have put their security in the hands of God, while the more affluent citizens have, in addition to divine supplications, resorted to floating their private security apparatus for protection of dear properties and dearer lives. Today, terrorists do go to Government-owned school to abduct hundreds of innocent girls. People can no longer board buses at the motor park even in the capital city of Abuja without grave apprehension of being bombed.
>> Each time security-breached tragedy is unleashed on the nation, what we often hear from the official quarters are the now familial rhetoric such as "the perpetrators of this dastardly act would be brought to book"; or "no stone will be left unturned to unmask the criminals"
>> Yet nothing would happen and before you know it, another series of violence would occur and the officialdom would keep repeating those annoying clichés of turning stones and bringing unknown people to book!
>> So if Nigeria is not a failed state, it is certainly a failing one and we must be patriotic enough to admit this as a precursor to finding solution. Mere wishful thinking would not spirit away the problem. One therefore finds it very difficult to understand why SSPF would unleash verbal attack on the revered figure of Professor Soyinka for speaking the truth. It is not everybody that criticises the government that wants to "bring down the government" Most of us want President Jonathan to succeed. So I think Ambakederemo should apologise to the venerable professor.
>>
>> Quote "So if Nigeria is not a failed state, it is certainly a failing one and we must be patriotic enough to admit this as a precursor to finding solution"
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
>> For current archives, visit http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
>> For previous archives, visit http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
>> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue-
>> unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
> For current archives, visit http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
> For previous archives, visit http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
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> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue-
> unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
> For current archives, visit http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
> For previous archives, visit http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
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> unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
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For current archives, visit http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
For previous archives, visit http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
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No one infers mass suicide or mass emigration but the facts against state failure are irrefutable.
What will help is collective resolve to figure out how best to extricate a country we all love
from the morass of decay and incompetence. ' Ogundimu
So how does your view differ from the views expressed earlier?
GE
............................................................
Professor Adeshina,
Thanks for inviting me to express my opinion but if I may humbly say so,
you miss the point here. Nobody is saying that everything is fine and dandy.
What we are arguing is that the situation can change and the future can be fine
if people quit agonizing - and implement a workable plan.
Ok so you have a GetoutofAsoRockNow plan. Right? At least it's a plan.
What's next? Fliers, posters, signatures, blogs, demonstrations, strikes .......?
It can go to the next level ---- but it seems to me that to keep shaking one's head and muttering
'Nigeria is a failed state,' as some people do, accomplishes very little indeed .
It signals resignation and defeatism and may even be counter-inspirational.
Professor Gloria Emeagwali
africahistory.net
vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora
Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History & African Studies
History Department
Central Connecticut State University
New Britain
CT 06050
africahistory.net
vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora
________________________________________
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gmail [ogundimu3@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 4:58 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Failed state : In defence of Wole Soyinka
Gloria:
Sorry, your contribution adds nothing to the quality and seriousness of this debate. No one infers mass suicide or mass emigration but the facts against state failure are irrefutable.
What will help is collective resolve to figure out how best to extricate a country we all love from the morass of decay and incompetence. Thank you.
Folu
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 15, 2014, at 3:39 PM, "Emeagwali, Gloria (History)" <emeagwali@mail.ccsu.edu> wrote:
>
> ....and since it is a' failed' state should all Nigerians just pack their bag and baggage and migrate to Ghana
> or should Nigerians just jump en masse into the River Niger.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Professor Gloria Emeagwali
> Prof. of History & African Studies
> History Department
> Central Connecticut State University
> New Britain
> CT 06050
> africahistory.net
> vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
> Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora
> ________________________________________
> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Prof. Segun Ogungbemi [seguno2013@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 2:18 PM
> To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Failed state : In defence of Wole Soyinka
>
> For those who on the basis of ethnicity or blind-eye-loyalty to the failing state of things in this country right now are the enemies of this country. I had argued elsewhere that what makes some people to view Nigeria a failed State or a failing State are:
> 1. the collapse of law and order,
> 2. the inability of the political leaders to turn the wealth of the nation into prosperity,
> 3. the chaotic condition of infrastructure,
> 4.devaluation of educational values,
> 5. insecurity among others.
> Advanced countries have impressive infrastructure, poverty is drastically reduced, their education sector is properly enhanced with adequate funding, the security network gives their people confidence and there is law and order. Americans are loyal and patriotic to their country because of those things that assure them that wherever they are, the government cares for them.
> Nigerians can be loyal and patriotic if their government cares for like as it is done in other climes.
> But when there is no collective or national interest, there cannot be pride of being a Nigerian. Consider the number of Nigerians today who will be happy to live and work in the US because of frustration.
> Nigeria currency was stronger than the US dollars in the 70s to partly early 80s when we were Federal Government scholars in the US. But today the naira is between 160 and 170 to the dollar.
> How do you assess this kind of scenario without saying that Nigeria is retrogressive? If people say that Nigeria is a failed State or a failing State, honestly they are not far from stating the obvious.
> We should be honest enough to accept our failure as a nation and be determined to change our ugly side of the coin. And I believe we can.
>
> Prof. Segun Ogungbemi
> Department of Philosophy
> Adekunle Ajasin University
> Akungba-Akoko, Ondo State
> Nigeria.
> +08033041371,08024670952
> seguno2013@gmail.com
>
>> On May 15, 2014, at 5:23 PM, "'kayode Ketefe' via USA Africa Dialogue Series" <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> Failed state : In defence of Wole Soyinka
>>
>>
>> KAYODE KETEFE
>>
>>
>> A number of vested interests have unleashed a deluge of venomous vituperative on the cyberspace within the last few days in reaction to the description of Nigeria as a "nation in chaos" by professor Wole Soyinka in his recent interview on Cable Network News (CNN)The learned professor had over the years, consistently warned that Nigeria was becoming or heading towards being a failed state. Now, while lamenting the horrible state of insecurity in the country, Soyinka had said, inter alia, "This is a government which is not only in denial mentally, but in denial about certain obvious steps to take..."
>> The latest in the cacophony of voices that greeted the professor's unpalatable view is the South South Peoples Forum, SSPF, whose president, Dr. Joe Ambakederemo, has said the conclusion of Soyinka that the government has failed was totally wrong.
>> Ambakederemo, was quoted in the dailies as saying that "Professor Soyinka has debased the intellectual respect he had garnered in the past. We have a duty to remind Soyinka that his conclusions are not just biased, they are devious and laced with mischief to pull down the government. They are equally erroneous and miscalculated to lay the foundation for civil unrest in the country."
>> Despite this outburst and denial of the Nigeria's true chaotic status, Ambakederemo never tendered a single logical point in refutation of the professor's argument or to support his own position, having been contented just with deploying mere vulgar abuses and uncouth utterances. To be objective, there are criteria that define a failed or a failing state against which Nigeria must be assessed to determine its status. First and foremost, any nation that worth its salt must be able to guarantee the safety of lives and properties of its citizenry. In addition, a thriving nation must have a government whose authority is real and enforced through the geographical enclosure it calls its territory. The nation must have citizenry that recognise the government and obey its laws and orders. The nation must also be able to provide enabling environment for its citizens to enjoy their rights and engage in their diverse existential pursuits. A nation, stricto
>> sensu, should be able to habitually manage its own problems.
>> These qualities of a real, thriving functional nation seem to vividly conveyed by the preamble to the American Declaration of Independence, 1776, which states inter alia thus "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments is instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
>> "That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness." The above-quoted political aphorisms also underline the doctrine of social contract between the governors and the governed. Under the social contract doctrine the provision of security also constitutes the bedrock of the nationhood as the people are presumed to have surrendered the individualist rights to self-help in exchange for collective protection offered by the state machinery.
>> To start with, on the issue of security, no Nigerian alive can honestly claim to feel safe.Insecurity has always abounded though,, but what we have been witnessing in recent times, specifically from the past three or four years, is gradually a dawning reality that the matter has gone out of hands. At no other times has the collapse of security in Nigeria been this total. This grim resignation is illustrated by the fact that majority have put their security in the hands of God, while the more affluent citizens have, in addition to divine supplications, resorted to floating their private security apparatus for protection of dear properties and dearer lives. Today, terrorists do go to Government-owned school to abduct hundreds of innocent girls. People can no longer board buses at the motor park even in the capital city of Abuja without grave apprehension of being bombed.
>> Each time security-breached tragedy is unleashed on the nation, what we often hear from the official quarters are the now familial rhetoric such as "the perpetrators of this dastardly act would be brought to book"; or "no stone will be left unturned to unmask the criminals"
>> Yet nothing would happen and before you know it, another series of violence would occur and the officialdom would keep repeating those annoying clichés of turning stones and bringing unknown people to book!
>> So if Nigeria is not a failed state, it is certainly a failing one and we must be patriotic enough to admit this as a precursor to finding solution. Mere wishful thinking would not spirit away the problem. One therefore finds it very difficult to understand why SSPF would unleash verbal attack on the revered figure of Professor Soyinka for speaking the truth. It is not everybody that criticises the government that wants to "bring down the government" Most of us want President Jonathan to succeed. So I think Ambakederemo should apologise to the venerable professor.
>>
>> Quote "So if Nigeria is not a failed state, it is certainly a failing one and we must be patriotic enough to admit this as a precursor to finding solution"
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
>> For current archives, visit http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
>> For previous archives, visit http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
>> To post to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue-
>> unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialogue+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
> For current archives, visit http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
> For previous archives, visit http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
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> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue-
> unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin.
> For current archives, visit http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
> For previous archives, visit http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
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