No, you are not alone, Ken. I find this whole narrative ghoulish. A
great, old man is very sick, and we cavil and sit in judgement over how
many letters he's received, whether he's given a good deal for blacks,
and question his Pan-Africanist credentials? What next--would he have
been a better boxer than Muhammad Ali? Yes, let's wish him a speedy
recovery, please.
Pablo
On 2013-06-18, at 11:11 AM, kenneth harrow <harrow@msu.edu> wrote:
> am i the only one to feel it is a bit like being a vulture to peck at
> the body of mandela before he even died.
> i hate the news deathwatch. let's wish him a speedy recovery, and many
> more years
> ken
>
> On 6/18/13 10:15 AM, Anunoby, Ogugua wrote:
>> Did Mandela "agree to a bad deal for blacks"? Maybe. Did he "agree"
>> to the best possible deal at the time for blacks" More likely.
>> Political negotiations and their outcomes are usually optimizations
>> challenges.
>>
>> Oa
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Emeagwali,
>> Gloria (History)
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 7:56 AM
>> To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fwd: ||NaijaObserver||
>> World leaders prepare for Nelson Mandela's death
>>
>> I believe it was just an exaggeration. I have come to the conclusion
>> that
>>
>> while Black South Africans respect Nelson Mandela they have a more sober
>>
>> view of him than the media would like us to believe.Writing in
>> Pretoria News. Friday June 14, 2013.
>>
>> Peter Fabricius (don't know if this name is fabricated or real) wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> 'It's true that Mandela is perhaps more revered by foreigners and-for
>> obvious reasons- white South Africans
>>
>> than by many black South Africans -including his ex-wife Winnie
>> Madikizela Mandela.'
>>
>>
>>
>> He then quoted Winnie Mandela's statement about Nelson:
>>
>>
>>
>> " Mandela let us down. He agreed to a bad deal for the blacks.
>> Economically we are still on the
>>
>> outside."
>>
>> So when we evaluate Obama Mandela we have to be cautious.In any case
>>
>> the talk about the mountains of letters is quite false and even
>> unnecessary. Whether there
>>
>> are a thousand letters or just ten- Mandela will still have a
>> fantastic place in history.
>>
>> Professor Gloria Emeagwali
>> Prof. of History & African Studies
>> History Department
>> Central Connecticut State University
>> New Britain
>> CT 06050
>> africahistory.net
>> vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
>> Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora
>> ________________________________________
>> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Assensoh, Akwasi B.
>> [aassenso@indiana.edu]
>> Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 6:08 AM
>> To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fwd: ||NaijaObserver||
>> World leaders prepare for Nelson Mandela's death
>>
>> Professor Gloria:
>>
>> Many thanks for the refreshing news from South Africa. As a fellow
>> historian, I was a bit perplexed to read earlier (before your
>> posting) that a mountain of letters of support were left at the gate
>> of Mr. Mandela's clinic or hospital. I wondered if they won't get wet
>> in case it rains, but I am glad to know that only a dozen of such
>> letters are there. Did they remove the mountain of letters and,
>> possibly, left the latest ones, or it was just an exaggeration? My
>> family and I are following Sky News and BBC news reports from the
>> "Queendom" (UK).
>>
>> Have a safe trip back, as we await more "dateline South Africa"
>> postings from you, a very reliable source.
>>
>> With gratitude,
>> A.B. Assensoh.
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Emeagwali, Gloria
>> (History) [emeagwali@mail.ccsu.edu]
>> Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 7:15 PM
>> To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fwd: ||NaijaObserver||
>> World leaders prepare for Nelson Mandela's death
>>
>> Well first of all let me say that I believe that Winnie has been a
>> regular visitor to the hospital.
>>
>> I may have missed her by some minutes
>> when I decided to go by the Medi-Heart Clinic myself- where he is
>> now located- to look around.
>>
>> What stunned me was the long line of paparazzi and media satellites
>> lining the street....about two dozen at least.
>> Call it a caravan of video cameras and equipment.
>>
>> Two friendly South African cops asked me for my permit but I let them
>> know that I was just an ordinary onlooker.
>> They joked and told me to pluck a leaf of a flower plant nearby in
>> memory of the visit.
>>
>> When I discovered that my hotel was only 15 minutes away from the
>> Clinic I decided that I had to see for myself. As for the mountain
>> of letters of support on the gate of the hospital - that the
>> international press talked about - well I only saw about a dozen letters.
>>
>> Meanwhile former ANC member, the charismatic Malema launched his
>> party during the week - after he was relieved of most of his
>> property, by court order.
>> I was reminded that president Zuma may not have gotten in power
>> without his support. Now they have fallen out.
>>
>>
>>
>> Professor Gloria Emeagwali
>> africahistory.net
>> vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
>> Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Oluwatoyin Adepoju
>> [tvadepoju@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 6:08 AM
>> To: USAAfrica Dialogue
>> Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fwd: ||NaijaObserver|| World
>> leaders prepare for Nelson Mandela's death
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: isaac umunna
>>
>> World leaders prepare for Nelson Mandela's death By News Express,
>> newsexpressngr.com<http://newsexpressngr.com>, on 15/06/2013
>>
>> Leaders across the world are bracing up for the death of former South
>> African President Nelson Mandela, which could take place within days,
>> going by his present health outlook. The iconic Mandela has been
>> hospitalised again in serious condition for a lung condition since
>> last week Saturday and prayers are being offered for his recovery.
>>
>> Officials in Washington and around the world are bracing for the
>> death of the longtime civil rights leader, according to Washington
>> Examiner.
>>
>> "It looks bad. Washington is keeping a close eye on the former leader
>> and civil rights hero," the paper quoted one U.S. official as saying.
>>
>> Washington Examiner said "expectations are that President Obama and
>> possibly former Presidents Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton and George W.
>> Bush would attend a funeral," adding that "no travel plans have been
>> made, however."
>>
>> Mandela, who spent 27 years in prison before being freed and
>> eventually winning the presidency, has been in a Pretoria hospital
>> since exactly a week ago, his fourth hospital trip for lung ailments.
>>
>> "World leaders were shaken when Zuma on Saturday appealed for prayers
>> and Mandela's wife, children's rights activist Graca Machel, canceled
>> a speech in Britain to remain by his side," Washington Examiner reported.
>>
>> It said that "news reports noted that comments from South African
>> officials have been suggesting that Mandela is near death. Jackson
>> Mthembu, spokesman for the African National Congress, told Sky News
>> that the party was 'prepared for the worst.' Even Mandela's estranged
>> wife Winnie visited him."
>>
>> Back in March, there was another health scare for Mandela, but he
>> recovered. He contracted tuberculosis while he was in jail for
>> fighting apartheid. Freed in 1990, Mandela was elected president four
>> years later. He helped to heal the years of segregation and rejected
>> calls to continue in office beyond the first term.
>>
>> *Photo: Mandela.
>>
>> __._,_.___
>> Reply via web
>> post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NaijaObserver/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJzYWt1OHIzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYwMDE2MTQ3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA0Mzc3NgRtc2dJZAMyMzk1NDgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzcxMjgzODcw?act=reply&messageNum=239548>
>> Reply to sender
>> <mailto:isumunna@yahoo.com?subject=Re%3A%20World%20leaders%20prepare%20for%20Nelson%20Mandela%E2%80%99s%20death>
>> Reply to group
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>> Start a New
>> Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NaijaObserver/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcWRmcWw2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYwMDE2MTQ3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA0Mzc3NgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNzEyODM4NzA->
>> Messages in this
>> topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NaijaObserver/message/239548;_ylc=X3oDMTM5NWwwdHQ0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYwMDE2MTQ3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA0Mzc3NgRtc2dJZAMyMzk1NDgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzcxMjgzODcwBHRwY0lkAzIzOTU0OA-->
>> (1)
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>
> --
> kenneth w. harrow
> faculty excellence advocate
> distinguished professor of english
> michigan state university
> department of english
> 619 red cedar road
> room C-614 wells hall
> east lansing, mi 48824
> ph. 517 803 8839
> harrow@msu.edu
>
>
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great, old man is very sick, and we cavil and sit in judgement over how
many letters he's received, whether he's given a good deal for blacks,
and question his Pan-Africanist credentials? What next--would he have
been a better boxer than Muhammad Ali? Yes, let's wish him a speedy
recovery, please.
Pablo
On 2013-06-18, at 11:11 AM, kenneth harrow <harrow@msu.edu> wrote:
> am i the only one to feel it is a bit like being a vulture to peck at
> the body of mandela before he even died.
> i hate the news deathwatch. let's wish him a speedy recovery, and many
> more years
> ken
>
> On 6/18/13 10:15 AM, Anunoby, Ogugua wrote:
>> Did Mandela "agree to a bad deal for blacks"? Maybe. Did he "agree"
>> to the best possible deal at the time for blacks" More likely.
>> Political negotiations and their outcomes are usually optimizations
>> challenges.
>>
>> Oa
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Emeagwali,
>> Gloria (History)
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 7:56 AM
>> To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fwd: ||NaijaObserver||
>> World leaders prepare for Nelson Mandela's death
>>
>> I believe it was just an exaggeration. I have come to the conclusion
>> that
>>
>> while Black South Africans respect Nelson Mandela they have a more sober
>>
>> view of him than the media would like us to believe.Writing in
>> Pretoria News. Friday June 14, 2013.
>>
>> Peter Fabricius (don't know if this name is fabricated or real) wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> 'It's true that Mandela is perhaps more revered by foreigners and-for
>> obvious reasons- white South Africans
>>
>> than by many black South Africans -including his ex-wife Winnie
>> Madikizela Mandela.'
>>
>>
>>
>> He then quoted Winnie Mandela's statement about Nelson:
>>
>>
>>
>> " Mandela let us down. He agreed to a bad deal for the blacks.
>> Economically we are still on the
>>
>> outside."
>>
>> So when we evaluate Obama Mandela we have to be cautious.In any case
>>
>> the talk about the mountains of letters is quite false and even
>> unnecessary. Whether there
>>
>> are a thousand letters or just ten- Mandela will still have a
>> fantastic place in history.
>>
>> Professor Gloria Emeagwali
>> Prof. of History & African Studies
>> History Department
>> Central Connecticut State University
>> New Britain
>> CT 06050
>> africahistory.net
>> vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
>> Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora
>> ________________________________________
>> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Assensoh, Akwasi B.
>> [aassenso@indiana.edu]
>> Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 6:08 AM
>> To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fwd: ||NaijaObserver||
>> World leaders prepare for Nelson Mandela's death
>>
>> Professor Gloria:
>>
>> Many thanks for the refreshing news from South Africa. As a fellow
>> historian, I was a bit perplexed to read earlier (before your
>> posting) that a mountain of letters of support were left at the gate
>> of Mr. Mandela's clinic or hospital. I wondered if they won't get wet
>> in case it rains, but I am glad to know that only a dozen of such
>> letters are there. Did they remove the mountain of letters and,
>> possibly, left the latest ones, or it was just an exaggeration? My
>> family and I are following Sky News and BBC news reports from the
>> "Queendom" (UK).
>>
>> Have a safe trip back, as we await more "dateline South Africa"
>> postings from you, a very reliable source.
>>
>> With gratitude,
>> A.B. Assensoh.
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Emeagwali, Gloria
>> (History) [emeagwali@mail.ccsu.edu]
>> Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 7:15 PM
>> To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fwd: ||NaijaObserver||
>> World leaders prepare for Nelson Mandela's death
>>
>> Well first of all let me say that I believe that Winnie has been a
>> regular visitor to the hospital.
>>
>> I may have missed her by some minutes
>> when I decided to go by the Medi-Heart Clinic myself- where he is
>> now located- to look around.
>>
>> What stunned me was the long line of paparazzi and media satellites
>> lining the street....about two dozen at least.
>> Call it a caravan of video cameras and equipment.
>>
>> Two friendly South African cops asked me for my permit but I let them
>> know that I was just an ordinary onlooker.
>> They joked and told me to pluck a leaf of a flower plant nearby in
>> memory of the visit.
>>
>> When I discovered that my hotel was only 15 minutes away from the
>> Clinic I decided that I had to see for myself. As for the mountain
>> of letters of support on the gate of the hospital - that the
>> international press talked about - well I only saw about a dozen letters.
>>
>> Meanwhile former ANC member, the charismatic Malema launched his
>> party during the week - after he was relieved of most of his
>> property, by court order.
>> I was reminded that president Zuma may not have gotten in power
>> without his support. Now they have fallen out.
>>
>>
>>
>> Professor Gloria Emeagwali
>> africahistory.net
>> vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
>> Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Oluwatoyin Adepoju
>> [tvadepoju@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 6:08 AM
>> To: USAAfrica Dialogue
>> Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fwd: ||NaijaObserver|| World
>> leaders prepare for Nelson Mandela's death
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: isaac umunna
>>
>> World leaders prepare for Nelson Mandela's death By News Express,
>> newsexpressngr.com<http://newsexpressngr.com>, on 15/06/2013
>>
>> Leaders across the world are bracing up for the death of former South
>> African President Nelson Mandela, which could take place within days,
>> going by his present health outlook. The iconic Mandela has been
>> hospitalised again in serious condition for a lung condition since
>> last week Saturday and prayers are being offered for his recovery.
>>
>> Officials in Washington and around the world are bracing for the
>> death of the longtime civil rights leader, according to Washington
>> Examiner.
>>
>> "It looks bad. Washington is keeping a close eye on the former leader
>> and civil rights hero," the paper quoted one U.S. official as saying.
>>
>> Washington Examiner said "expectations are that President Obama and
>> possibly former Presidents Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton and George W.
>> Bush would attend a funeral," adding that "no travel plans have been
>> made, however."
>>
>> Mandela, who spent 27 years in prison before being freed and
>> eventually winning the presidency, has been in a Pretoria hospital
>> since exactly a week ago, his fourth hospital trip for lung ailments.
>>
>> "World leaders were shaken when Zuma on Saturday appealed for prayers
>> and Mandela's wife, children's rights activist Graca Machel, canceled
>> a speech in Britain to remain by his side," Washington Examiner reported.
>>
>> It said that "news reports noted that comments from South African
>> officials have been suggesting that Mandela is near death. Jackson
>> Mthembu, spokesman for the African National Congress, told Sky News
>> that the party was 'prepared for the worst.' Even Mandela's estranged
>> wife Winnie visited him."
>>
>> Back in March, there was another health scare for Mandela, but he
>> recovered. He contracted tuberculosis while he was in jail for
>> fighting apartheid. Freed in 1990, Mandela was elected president four
>> years later. He helped to heal the years of segregation and rejected
>> calls to continue in office beyond the first term.
>>
>> *Photo: Mandela.
>>
>> __._,_.___
>> Reply via web
>> post<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NaijaObserver/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJzYWt1OHIzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYwMDE2MTQ3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA0Mzc3NgRtc2dJZAMyMzk1NDgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzcxMjgzODcw?act=reply&messageNum=239548>
>> Reply to sender
>> <mailto:isumunna@yahoo.com?subject=Re%3A%20World%20leaders%20prepare%20for%20Nelson%20Mandela%E2%80%99s%20death>
>> Reply to group
>> <mailto:NaijaObserver@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20World%20leaders%20prepare%20for%20Nelson%20Mandela%E2%80%99s%20death>
>> Start a New
>> Topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NaijaObserver/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcWRmcWw2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYwMDE2MTQ3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA0Mzc3NgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNzEyODM4NzA->
>> Messages in this
>> topic<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NaijaObserver/message/239548;_ylc=X3oDMTM5NWwwdHQ0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzYwMDE2MTQ3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA0Mzc3NgRtc2dJZAMyMzk1NDgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzcxMjgzODcwBHRwY0lkAzIzOTU0OA-->
>> (1)
>> Recent Activity:
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> --
> kenneth w. harrow
> faculty excellence advocate
> distinguished professor of english
> michigan state university
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> east lansing, mi 48824
> ph. 517 803 8839
> harrow@msu.edu
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