Pablo:
Absolutely, I am not arguing that we should stick to the past forever; it is just a matter of illumination.
Where I come from such questions used to be legitimate ones framed about the dead and for the dying. Of course, it had nothing to do with media frenzy or the commercialization of news, etc. We may call it pan-Africanizing all the same, better still Akanizing, death and the hereafter. Yes, in the not so distant past, such questions were posed to the dying, including whether they would be reborn based on their achievements and/or failures on earth. Note that rebirth is central to Akan ontology and epistemology of hereafter. There was no heaven and hell. Simply put, good deeds led to rebirth, while evil ones paved the way for eternal death, or a state of permanent mortality without resurrection. Did the dying give answers to such questions? Yes, if they could. My understanding is that such questions served as a means of encouraging the living to do the right thing; it also "aborted death" in cases of those who had not done the right thing. The latter appealed to the ancestors for additional years on earth to rectify their past depravities. It is all about faith: all religions, that is. It is important to note that the Ancestors were not worshipped nor were they the ones who made decisions that affected the living. Rather the ancestors were revered as mediators between Onyankopong Kwame (God) and humans and it was the former who made decisions that impacted the latter. Christians pray to God through the saints. It is the same thing; Akans used Ancestors as a ritual-performance bridge to God.
Kwabena
Kwabena Akurang-Parry, Ph. D.
(Professor of African Studies & World History)
Dept of History/Philosophy
Shippensburg University
Shippensburg, PA 17257
USA
Phone 717 477 1286
Fax 7171 477 4062
________________________________________
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Pablo Idahosa [pidahosa@yorku.ca]
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 4:06 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fwd: ||NaijaObserver|| World leaders prepare for Nelson Mandela's death
No, you are not alone, Ken. I find this whole narrative ghoulish. A
great, old man is very sick, and we cavil and sit in judgement over how
many letters he's received, whether he's given a good deal for blacks,
and question his Pan-Africanist credentials? What next--would he have
been a better boxer than Muhammad Ali? Yes, let's wish him a speedy
recovery, please.
Pablo
On 2013-06-18, at 11:11 AM, kenneth harrow <harrow@msu.edu> wrote:
> am i the only one to feel it is a bit like being a vulture to peck at
> the body of mandela before he even died.
> i hate the news deathwatch. let's wish him a speedy recovery, and many
> more years
> ken
>
> On 6/18/13 10:15 AM, Anunoby, Ogugua wrote:
>> Did Mandela "agree to a bad deal for blacks"? Maybe. Did he "agree"
>> to the best possible deal at the time for blacks" More likely.
>> Political negotiations and their outcomes are usually optimizations
>> challenges.
>>
>> Oa
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Emeagwali,
>> Gloria (History)
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 7:56 AM
>> To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fwd: ||NaijaObserver||
>> World leaders prepare for Nelson Mandela's death
>>
>> I believe it was just an exaggeration. I have come to the conclusion
>> that
>>
>> while Black South Africans respect Nelson Mandela they have a more sober
>>
>> view of him than the media would like us to believe.Writing in
>> Pretoria News. Friday June 14, 2013.
>>
>> Peter Fabricius (don't know if this name is fabricated or real) wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> 'It's true that Mandela is perhaps more revered by foreigners and-for
>> obvious reasons- white South Africans
>>
>> than by many black South Africans -including his ex-wife Winnie
>> Madikizela Mandela.'
>>
>>
>>
>> He then quoted Winnie Mandela's statement about Nelson:
>>
>>
>>
>> " Mandela let us down. He agreed to a bad deal for the blacks.
>> Economically we are still on the
>>
>> outside."
>>
>> So when we evaluate Obama Mandela we have to be cautious.In any case
>>
>> the talk about the mountains of letters is quite false and even
>> unnecessary. Whether there
>>
>> are a thousand letters or just ten- Mandela will still have a
>> fantastic place in history.
>>
>> Professor Gloria Emeagwali
>> Prof. of History & African Studies
>> History Department
>> Central Connecticut State University
>> New Britain
>> CT 06050
>> africahistory.net
>> vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
>> Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora
>> ________________________________________
>> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Assensoh, Akwasi B.
>> [aassenso@indiana.edu]
>> Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 6:08 AM
>> To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fwd: ||NaijaObserver||
>> World leaders prepare for Nelson Mandela's death
>>
>> Professor Gloria:
>>
>> Many thanks for the refreshing news from South Africa. As a fellow
>> historian, I was a bit perplexed to read earlier (before your
>> posting) that a mountain of letters of support were left at the gate
>> of Mr. Mandela's clinic or hospital. I wondered if they won't get wet
>> in case it rains, but I am glad to know that only a dozen of such
>> letters are there. Did they remove the mountain of letters and,
>> possibly, left the latest ones, or it was just an exaggeration? My
>> family and I are following Sky News and BBC news reports from the
>> "Queendom" (UK).
>>
>> Have a safe trip back, as we await more "dateline South Africa"
>> postings from you, a very reliable source.
>>
>> With gratitude,
>> A.B. Assensoh.
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Emeagwali, Gloria
>> (History) [emeagwali@mail.ccsu.edu]
>> Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 7:15 PM
>> To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fwd: ||NaijaObserver||
>> World leaders prepare for Nelson Mandela's death
>>
>> Well first of all let me say that I believe that Winnie has been a
>> regular visitor to the hospital.
>>
>> I may have missed her by some minutes
>> when I decided to go by the Medi-Heart Clinic myself- where he is
>> now located- to look around.
>>
>> What stunned me was the long line of paparazzi and media satellites
>> lining the street....about two dozen at least.
>> Call it a caravan of video cameras and equipment.
>>
>> Two friendly South African cops asked me for my permit but I let them
>> know that I was just an ordinary onlooker.
>> They joked and told me to pluck a leaf of a flower plant nearby in
>> memory of the visit.
>>
>> When I discovered that my hotel was only 15 minutes away from the
>> Clinic I decided that I had to see for myself. As for the mountain
>> of letters of support on the gate of the hospital - that the
>> international press talked about - well I only saw about a dozen letters.
>>
>> Meanwhile former ANC member, the charismatic Malema launched his
>> party during the week - after he was relieved of most of his
>> property, by court order.
>> I was reminded that president Zuma may not have gotten in power
>> without his support. Now they have fallen out.
>>
>>
>>
>> Professor Gloria Emeagwali
>> africahistory.net
>> vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
>> Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Oluwatoyin Adepoju
>> [tvadepoju@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 6:08 AM
>> To: USAAfrica Dialogue
>> Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fwd: ||NaijaObserver|| World
>> leaders prepare for Nelson Mandela's death
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: isaac umunna
>>
>> World leaders prepare for Nelson Mandela's death By News Express,
>> newsexpressngr.com<http://newsexpressngr.com>, on 15/06/2013
>>
>> Leaders across the world are bracing up for the death of former South
>> African President Nelson Mandela, which could take place within days,
>> going by his present health outlook. The iconic Mandela has been
>> hospitalised again in serious condition for a lung condition since
>> last week Saturday and prayers are being offered for his recovery.
>>
>> Officials in Washington and around the world are bracing for the
>> death of the longtime civil rights leader, according to Washington
>> Examiner.
>>
>> "It looks bad. Washington is keeping a close eye on the former leader
>> and civil rights hero," the paper quoted one U.S. official as saying.
>>
>> Washington Examiner said "expectations are that President Obama and
>> possibly former Presidents Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton and George W.
>> Bush would attend a funeral," adding that "no travel plans have been
>> made, however."
>>
>> Mandela, who spent 27 years in prison before being freed and
>> eventually winning the presidency, has been in a Pretoria hospital
>> since exactly a week ago, his fourth hospital trip for lung ailments.
>>
>> "World leaders were shaken when Zuma on Saturday appealed for prayers
>> and Mandela's wife, children's rights activist Graca Machel, canceled
>> a speech in Britain to remain by his side," Washington Examiner reported.
>>
>> It said that "news reports noted that comments from South African
>> officials have been suggesting that Mandela is near death. Jackson
>> Mthembu, spokesman for the African National Congress, told Sky News
>> that the party was 'prepared for the worst.' Even Mandela's estranged
>> wife Winnie visited him."
>>
>> Back in March, there was another health scare for Mandela, but he
>> recovered. He contracted tuberculosis while he was in jail for
>> fighting apartheid. Freed in 1990, Mandela was elected president four
>> years later. He helped to heal the years of segregation and rejected
>> calls to continue in office beyond the first term.
>>
>> *Photo: Mandela.
>>
>> __._,_.___
>> Reply via web
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>
> --
> kenneth w. harrow
> faculty excellence advocate
> distinguished professor of english
> michigan state university
> department of english
> 619 red cedar road
> room C-614 wells hall
> east lansing, mi 48824
> ph. 517 803 8839
> harrow@msu.edu
>
>
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Absolutely, I am not arguing that we should stick to the past forever; it is just a matter of illumination.
Where I come from such questions used to be legitimate ones framed about the dead and for the dying. Of course, it had nothing to do with media frenzy or the commercialization of news, etc. We may call it pan-Africanizing all the same, better still Akanizing, death and the hereafter. Yes, in the not so distant past, such questions were posed to the dying, including whether they would be reborn based on their achievements and/or failures on earth. Note that rebirth is central to Akan ontology and epistemology of hereafter. There was no heaven and hell. Simply put, good deeds led to rebirth, while evil ones paved the way for eternal death, or a state of permanent mortality without resurrection. Did the dying give answers to such questions? Yes, if they could. My understanding is that such questions served as a means of encouraging the living to do the right thing; it also "aborted death" in cases of those who had not done the right thing. The latter appealed to the ancestors for additional years on earth to rectify their past depravities. It is all about faith: all religions, that is. It is important to note that the Ancestors were not worshipped nor were they the ones who made decisions that affected the living. Rather the ancestors were revered as mediators between Onyankopong Kwame (God) and humans and it was the former who made decisions that impacted the latter. Christians pray to God through the saints. It is the same thing; Akans used Ancestors as a ritual-performance bridge to God.
Kwabena
Kwabena Akurang-Parry, Ph. D.
(Professor of African Studies & World History)
Dept of History/Philosophy
Shippensburg University
Shippensburg, PA 17257
USA
Phone 717 477 1286
Fax 7171 477 4062
________________________________________
From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Pablo Idahosa [pidahosa@yorku.ca]
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 4:06 PM
To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fwd: ||NaijaObserver|| World leaders prepare for Nelson Mandela's death
No, you are not alone, Ken. I find this whole narrative ghoulish. A
great, old man is very sick, and we cavil and sit in judgement over how
many letters he's received, whether he's given a good deal for blacks,
and question his Pan-Africanist credentials? What next--would he have
been a better boxer than Muhammad Ali? Yes, let's wish him a speedy
recovery, please.
Pablo
On 2013-06-18, at 11:11 AM, kenneth harrow <harrow@msu.edu> wrote:
> am i the only one to feel it is a bit like being a vulture to peck at
> the body of mandela before he even died.
> i hate the news deathwatch. let's wish him a speedy recovery, and many
> more years
> ken
>
> On 6/18/13 10:15 AM, Anunoby, Ogugua wrote:
>> Did Mandela "agree to a bad deal for blacks"? Maybe. Did he "agree"
>> to the best possible deal at the time for blacks" More likely.
>> Political negotiations and their outcomes are usually optimizations
>> challenges.
>>
>> Oa
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Emeagwali,
>> Gloria (History)
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 7:56 AM
>> To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fwd: ||NaijaObserver||
>> World leaders prepare for Nelson Mandela's death
>>
>> I believe it was just an exaggeration. I have come to the conclusion
>> that
>>
>> while Black South Africans respect Nelson Mandela they have a more sober
>>
>> view of him than the media would like us to believe.Writing in
>> Pretoria News. Friday June 14, 2013.
>>
>> Peter Fabricius (don't know if this name is fabricated or real) wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> 'It's true that Mandela is perhaps more revered by foreigners and-for
>> obvious reasons- white South Africans
>>
>> than by many black South Africans -including his ex-wife Winnie
>> Madikizela Mandela.'
>>
>>
>>
>> He then quoted Winnie Mandela's statement about Nelson:
>>
>>
>>
>> " Mandela let us down. He agreed to a bad deal for the blacks.
>> Economically we are still on the
>>
>> outside."
>>
>> So when we evaluate Obama Mandela we have to be cautious.In any case
>>
>> the talk about the mountains of letters is quite false and even
>> unnecessary. Whether there
>>
>> are a thousand letters or just ten- Mandela will still have a
>> fantastic place in history.
>>
>> Professor Gloria Emeagwali
>> Prof. of History & African Studies
>> History Department
>> Central Connecticut State University
>> New Britain
>> CT 06050
>> africahistory.net
>> vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
>> Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora
>> ________________________________________
>> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Assensoh, Akwasi B.
>> [aassenso@indiana.edu]
>> Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 6:08 AM
>> To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fwd: ||NaijaObserver||
>> World leaders prepare for Nelson Mandela's death
>>
>> Professor Gloria:
>>
>> Many thanks for the refreshing news from South Africa. As a fellow
>> historian, I was a bit perplexed to read earlier (before your
>> posting) that a mountain of letters of support were left at the gate
>> of Mr. Mandela's clinic or hospital. I wondered if they won't get wet
>> in case it rains, but I am glad to know that only a dozen of such
>> letters are there. Did they remove the mountain of letters and,
>> possibly, left the latest ones, or it was just an exaggeration? My
>> family and I are following Sky News and BBC news reports from the
>> "Queendom" (UK).
>>
>> Have a safe trip back, as we await more "dateline South Africa"
>> postings from you, a very reliable source.
>>
>> With gratitude,
>> A.B. Assensoh.
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Emeagwali, Gloria
>> (History) [emeagwali@mail.ccsu.edu]
>> Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 7:15 PM
>> To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fwd: ||NaijaObserver||
>> World leaders prepare for Nelson Mandela's death
>>
>> Well first of all let me say that I believe that Winnie has been a
>> regular visitor to the hospital.
>>
>> I may have missed her by some minutes
>> when I decided to go by the Medi-Heart Clinic myself- where he is
>> now located- to look around.
>>
>> What stunned me was the long line of paparazzi and media satellites
>> lining the street....about two dozen at least.
>> Call it a caravan of video cameras and equipment.
>>
>> Two friendly South African cops asked me for my permit but I let them
>> know that I was just an ordinary onlooker.
>> They joked and told me to pluck a leaf of a flower plant nearby in
>> memory of the visit.
>>
>> When I discovered that my hotel was only 15 minutes away from the
>> Clinic I decided that I had to see for myself. As for the mountain
>> of letters of support on the gate of the hospital - that the
>> international press talked about - well I only saw about a dozen letters.
>>
>> Meanwhile former ANC member, the charismatic Malema launched his
>> party during the week - after he was relieved of most of his
>> property, by court order.
>> I was reminded that president Zuma may not have gotten in power
>> without his support. Now they have fallen out.
>>
>>
>>
>> Professor Gloria Emeagwali
>> africahistory.net
>> vimeo.com/user5946750/videos
>> Documentaries on Africa and the African Diaspora
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
>> [usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Oluwatoyin Adepoju
>> [tvadepoju@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 6:08 AM
>> To: USAAfrica Dialogue
>> Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fwd: ||NaijaObserver|| World
>> leaders prepare for Nelson Mandela's death
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: isaac umunna
>>
>> World leaders prepare for Nelson Mandela's death By News Express,
>> newsexpressngr.com<http://newsexpressngr.com>, on 15/06/2013
>>
>> Leaders across the world are bracing up for the death of former South
>> African President Nelson Mandela, which could take place within days,
>> going by his present health outlook. The iconic Mandela has been
>> hospitalised again in serious condition for a lung condition since
>> last week Saturday and prayers are being offered for his recovery.
>>
>> Officials in Washington and around the world are bracing for the
>> death of the longtime civil rights leader, according to Washington
>> Examiner.
>>
>> "It looks bad. Washington is keeping a close eye on the former leader
>> and civil rights hero," the paper quoted one U.S. official as saying.
>>
>> Washington Examiner said "expectations are that President Obama and
>> possibly former Presidents Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton and George W.
>> Bush would attend a funeral," adding that "no travel plans have been
>> made, however."
>>
>> Mandela, who spent 27 years in prison before being freed and
>> eventually winning the presidency, has been in a Pretoria hospital
>> since exactly a week ago, his fourth hospital trip for lung ailments.
>>
>> "World leaders were shaken when Zuma on Saturday appealed for prayers
>> and Mandela's wife, children's rights activist Graca Machel, canceled
>> a speech in Britain to remain by his side," Washington Examiner reported.
>>
>> It said that "news reports noted that comments from South African
>> officials have been suggesting that Mandela is near death. Jackson
>> Mthembu, spokesman for the African National Congress, told Sky News
>> that the party was 'prepared for the worst.' Even Mandela's estranged
>> wife Winnie visited him."
>>
>> Back in March, there was another health scare for Mandela, but he
>> recovered. He contracted tuberculosis while he was in jail for
>> fighting apartheid. Freed in 1990, Mandela was elected president four
>> years later. He helped to heal the years of segregation and rejected
>> calls to continue in office beyond the first term.
>>
>> *Photo: Mandela.
>>
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>
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