Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Nigeria: Boko Haram, poverty, Jonathan and the game of musical chairs

Mr. Ogungbemi:

Can we really have an unbiased discussion with you on Buhari or any other person who is "muslim", since in your own words, (paraphrasing)  "He will never get your vote… because he is a muslim". Such a big contradiction, giving your positive comments about Fashola in Lagos. Maybe, it is case "my muslim" is better than "their muslim". 

This is the same type of implicit and explicit bias that is tearing many societies apart today, for example, the issue of race in the US as exemplified by the recent Trayvon Martin case.  

Enough said on this.

Lekan Alli.

From: Segun Ogungbemi <seguno2013@gmail.com>
Reply-To: <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Date: Friday, July 26, 2013 10:28 AM
To: "usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com" <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Nigeria: Boko Haram, poverty, Jonathan and the game of musical chairs

Dear Saliu, 

Thanks for the same post you sent to me twice except for a change of title. May I  let you know that I am still Mr. Ogungbemi.  I am not title crazy. My teachers in the US are referred to as Mr. by the public and I like that. 

I was not in Nigeria when Buhari took over the reign of power in 1983 but I read about it in the US then. My reply to Cornelius answers your question. The bottom line of it all is that the end does not justify the means. Let the electorate decide what to do. Bad leaders can be overthrown by the masses if it gets terribly bad. We are very impatient people and that is why a few rich people called on the military for their selfish end. Are we better off or are we worst off? The military are as corrupt as the civilian governments they toppled. At the end of the day most Nigerians are at the negative receiving end. 

There are better ways to end the kind of fraudulent elections that took place in 1979. Democracy is nurtured and overtime it becomes mature. In Nigeria we want it to be born today, nurtured and grow rapidly to maturity within a short time. It is never like that. We have to learn from our mistakes and that is why people say that experience is the best teacher. 

Segun Ogungbemi. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 26, 2013, at 2:47 PM, "Nurudeen Saliu" <n.salui@btinternet.com> wrote:

Dear Prof. Ogungbemi

Although, I disagree with your opinion on General Buhari,  I concede your right to  say it. However, the military coup of December 1983, which eventually enthroned General Buhari,  was not worse than the conduct of the election that brought NPN back to power earlier in that year.  The NPN performance between 1979 and 1983, ordinarily could not have given it more vote than it had in 1979.  The party disenfranchised and ran roughshod over Nigerians who would not have wanted it in 1983.  Hence, any manner of dislodging it was appropriate.   General Buhari's very short tenure,  and in spite of its short comings was more beneficial to the country  than anything we've had since.  Ivory tower postulations are good.  The name and structure of a government should not be more important than the transformation it brings to a country.

Regards

Dotu Salu

 

 

From:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com [mailto:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Segun Ogungbemi
Sent: 26 July 2013 04:23
To:usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Nigeria: Boko Haram, poverty, Jonathan and the game of musical chairs

 

Thanks brother Cornelius. Everyone wants power. The use of that power when it is given freely or forcefully acquired becomes a moral issue. Buhari came to power not by any democratic means at all. All military coups against a constitutionally and democratically elected government is an aberration. Buhari usurped power forcefully and governed for roughly two years and another coup swept his administration out. "Soldier go soldier come"  as Fela aptly put it.

 I have no respect for soldiers who abandoned their official responsibility and usurped power forcefully. It is immoral and unacceptable. 

Buhari as a person is a pleasant person but being a Muslim: can he be trusted? See what Muslims have turned the world to around the globe. Must Muslims be violent to able to correct a political system or an immoral government? See what they did everywhere in the world today.

 The 9/11 in 2001 still makes me sick inside. For such a heinous crime to be committed against humanity was initially unimaginable. Are Muslims the only people in the world? 

They have no tolerance and respect for human life. If they don't want to live here on earth,  why can't they leave for alijana peacefully and quietly and let those who want to live here enjoy the short span of life given to them by nature? 

Take a look at Nigerian history, has any religious group been so violent as Muslims? I have lived in this country for 67 years, I have never seen such a carnage done to one's country like what the Muslims have done to Nigeria and their leaders including Buhari would stand aloof without intervention. How can such a person say he wants my vote at the polls? He will never get it. It is not Buhari alone but all those northern leaders who see the kind of carnage Boko Haram Muslim sect has done to innocent Nigerians including children and students and failed to stop it and yet seek to become president come 2015. Is that the way to lead? 

So Cornelius, have a critical assessment of the situation as discussed above and see how Nigeria can be united by a leader of a better track record than your man, Buhari, 

You live in Sweden because it is a peaceful environment and the people are probably tolerant and accommodating.

 I had lived in the US for several years and I have respect for their tolerance and accommodating spirit. It is not a perfect society but it is still the best I have seen in my life. Why don't we aspire to be like that or like Sweden where you live? 

It is time to rethink without any emotion but just on rational ground and  common sense of morals. 

Segun Ogungbemi. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 25, 2013, at 11:41 PM, Cornelius Hamelberg <corneliushamelberg@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Professor Segun Ogungbemi

The only reason why I sometimes ask probing questions is to benefit from enlightening answers. Hillel the Elder used to say, "One who does not increase his knowledge decreases it." So, I can only congratulate you, Kusheh, and that your latest response has caused a much valued increase and a diminishing of ignorance on my part.

Generally speaking, Northerner (in Nigeria) usually implies "Muslim" although there are minority Christians such as Samuel-Szalanaga 7994 whose observations as witnessed here deserve our attention.  Having lived with Igbos in Nigeria, for almost four years, I know that when the Igbo says "Hausa-man" he means Muslim and that Islam is an essential feature of Northern identity, superseding the merely  geographic, and that  Islam is usually a strong component in Northern identity, since it also encompasses the cultural. Ok, so Gowon wasn't Muslim and I even met an anomaly Hausa –man, one Rev. Muhammad who was studying political science and Human Rights here at Stockholm University, in Sweden a student of Professor Björn Beckman.

Here you were stretching it a little. Thou shalt not exaggerate. I do not believe that it's accurate to state that my honest  man, Muhmmadu Buhari  "was part of those who ruled for 38 years", when in fact he was only head of state from December 31, 1983 to August 27, 1985. He did some real cleaning up before he was deposed by Babangida. The only mistake that Muhammadu Buhari made was that on departing for Mecca he promised that when he returned to Nigeria he would complete the cleaning up exercise and of course – predictably, the corrupt ones then knew that their period of impunity would come to an end when  the honest general returned from Mecca , and expecting that their corruption was going to be severely punished, cleaned up, they  took the pre-emptive action of deposing him whilst he was still on pilgrimage...

You say, "My understanding of democracy is different from yours"? Well, I've lived in a democratic country, Sweden, most of my life – and I'm sure that both of us agree that democracy is not only about running free and fair elections but also about strengthening democratic institutions and that that should be a goal to work for in Nigeria.

I know for a fact that with all the transparency in the world, there are still behind the scenes, horse-trading and what not in selecting/ electing a flag-bear to contest presidential elections. In Egypt for example, somehow, "the powers that be" refused the Brotherhood's number one candidate the right to lead his party and to contest the presidential elections. That was immoral.  I cannot see the immorality in the PDP deciding in advance, this time the candidate will be a southerner on condition that the next time he or she will be a Northerner and sealing a deal on that understanding. But to renege on that understanding, that would be immoral.

The presidency of the general assembly at the UN is done on a rotational basis. Is that also immoral Sir?

I am certainly not at all qualified to run for any political post in Nigeria or elsewhere.

http://www.thelocal.se/blogs/corneliushamelberg/

 
On Thursday, 25 July 2013 22:57:40 UTC+2, seguno2013 wrote:

Dear Cornelius,

Once again, I appreciate your response but let me clear the issue of my identity.  I am an indigenous Yagba in the present Yagba East L