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From: Hussaini Jibrin<hussainajibrin@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 9:51 AM
Subject: [Raayiriga] My shocking experience when I returned to the classroom –Prof. Saror
To: Ra'ayi Riga <raayiriga@yahoogroups.com>
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From: Hussaini Jibrin<hussainajibrin@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 9:51 AM
Subject: [Raayiriga] My shocking experience when I returned to the classroom –Prof. Saror
To: Ra'ayi Riga <raayiriga@yahoogroups.com>
SUNDAY TRUST
My shocking experience when I returned to the classroom –Prof. Saror
Category: Lead stories Published on Sunday, 11 August 2013 05:00 Written by Terna Doki
Professor Daniel Saror is a former Vice Chancellor of the Ahmadu Bello University, Zaria. The chieftain of the All Nigeria Peoples Party (ANPP) which recently fused into the All Progressives Congress (APC) is a two-tenured Senator and a former Senate Minority leader. In this interview in Abuja, he spoke on a variety of national issues, including the Northern quest for 2015 presidency, the newly formed opposition party, President Goodluck Jonathan's regime, and his latest experience as a lecturer in the University among others. Excerpts:
You have returned to the university system after serving in the National Assembly. Education is in crisis. The Academic Staff Union of University (ASUU) is currently on strike because of failure of the Federal Government to implement the 2009 agreement it had with the union. But the off-and-on strikes of ASUU are now another problem. What can you say on this?
ASUU has tried in the last 20 years, from 1992 till date, to bring about some changes in the university system. The varsities are still suffering under the weight of underfunding, tremendous underfunding, to the extent that even quality of training of teachers is now going down. I am lecturing now at the university. You cannot believe that you have classes where people are hanging on the windows. Though this does not during the courses I teach, but I can see students hanging outside. There is no room for them to sit. The teachers don't have ordinary microphones to speak so that people can hear. There is no electricity and running water. Laboratories cannot function. There are no available teaching consumables –chemicals, reagents. All these have to be sourced from outside. But what budgets are they giving them? A few hundred thousand dollars- that's if you convert what they get to dollars. But universities in America are getting up to $1 billion equivalent. So, the standard of education is getting lower, lower and lower. You can see it in the quality of graduates or post graduate workers we are able to train. When the rest of the world is going molecular, we are still talking about gross and microscopic appearance of things. We cannot even do ultra-structure aspect of things not to talk of molecular. So, I am of the view that government must enhance funding to the universities. When I was in the Senate as member of the education committee, I continued to raise submissions that the funding has to improve. If it doesn't improve, the quality of education would be worse for it. We are just recycling people. We don't have facilities to train good Ph.d students in most of the universities now. There are just no facilities. If we don't take time, with the expansion of universities (which I don't mind), we are going to be in serious mess in the education sector. Let us take time and train our own staff. And if there is need for it, send them abroad to acquire new skills and come home to impart on others. But as it is now, we are not making serious headway educationally.
Since 2009, ASUU has been on intermittent strikes to compel compliance with the agreement it had with government. But the excuse of government has always been hinged on lack of funds. Yet, more universities are being opened. Does this make sense to you?
No! It doesn't make sense to me. It is a question of prioritization. The government has to decide on what to finance. Government has to do a lot of thinking and analysis to know where the actual needs are. It is not just to give a blanket amount of money and say, you are a first generation university. So, you must take so much. Let us look at the actual needs of these universities as they are spelt out through the budget process. The budget process does not start at the level of National Assembly, but at that of individual university. They identify these areas of priorities. Let's address these things and know that we have finished one aspect. Then, we move to another aspect. But the funding is inadequate, no matter how you look at it. I have taken time to look at these things. I did some analysis sometime back and sent to the Senate President to look at it and see the comparism. An American university of a small size will have a yearly budget of $700 million. A Nigerian university of same size will have a budget equivalent of $200, 000 (two hundred thousand dollars). It makes no sense. There is no comparison at all.
The crisis in the Nigeria Governors Forum (NGF) is still subsisting. Its spillover effect is what is now happening in Rivers State. The President and his wife are fingered in the crisis. What is your take on this crisis?
I think it's a disgrace. We have more serious issues facing our people- issues of poverty, disease, unavailability of drinking water and so on. And yet, we have governors and a President engaging in what I may call a child's play. They are taking Nigerians for a ride. They are comfortable with the positions they occupy. But it ends there. I pray that they apply the time and resources God has given us to uplift the standard of living of Nigerians and not to bicker about who wants to be the Chairman of NGF, who wants to run for Vice President or who wants to belong to which party. It's not part of their briefs. They have clear mandates- ensure the security of this land and improve the quality of lives of the people. Here is the money we have for these things, apply it well. They are not doing this. I mean all of them!
But the President has always denied involvement in the current crisis…?
Childish- Nobody believes him and he knows that nobody believes him. I watched him on television when political elders in Rivers State were with him in the Villa. And the way he was talking on television shows that he is taking a position at a time when he is supposed to be the father of Rivers state. He rather took a position that stared me in the face. I am not speaking from the papers. But I watched him on television myself. It is not good for this country's image.
The North is clearly in a political dilemma because of Jonathan's seeming interest to run again in 2015. What is your interpretation of the unfolding political scenario?
I agree with you that the North is in a political fix because they want the Presidency to come back in 2015. It was the North that helped put President Jonathan in office and whatever follows is immaterial. Now, they are saying he agreed to run for only one term. I think the North has a lot of work to do to unseat President Jonathan come 2015. People need to put their hearts together, resolve to galvanise the North and make it known that when we take this power, we shall use it to benefit every part of Nigeria. The North that you know is badly factionalized now with the emergence of Boko Haram and with the apparent effort to force another culture on other people in the North. The idea of making people feel that they must be subservient to a group before they can be successful in the North has brought cracks in the North. These cracks need to be worked on as quickly as possible if the North is going to be a homogenous body that can stand firm and say, this is what we want and get it. It is important we know that we are looking for power to develop our nation and not to put some people on top of others to the benefit of few. I think the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) has a battle ahead of them. If the APC takes off properly. We hope it will. If the message sinks clearly and people can see and discern the difference in approach between what the APC intends to do and what PDP is doing, a battle line will be clearly drawn. Whether one group will succeed or not, for me, it is too early to say now.
Do you think the Northern political oligarchy is doing enough to actualize a Northern presidency in 2015?
About the Northern oligarchy, I am not sure I can say much about them. What I can say is that the Northern oligarchy have not worked hard to hold the North together like in the days of the late Sardauna of Sokoto, Sir Ahmadu Bello. This is so because of the creation of more states in the North, its balkanization and the inequalities that have been entrenched in the system, coupled with the insecurity that Boko Haram has brought and the ascending ethno-religious intolerance in Northern Nigeria. It is much more serious now than it was years back. It is now very pronounced. These are things that need to be addressed. People need to be given confidence that what they do or say is going to affect them positively. Some groups in the North right now are feeling insecure and threatened. Some religious organizations in some parts of the North are running away. They are scared. They are not allowed to operate the way they should. So, we need to galvanize the North. We need to talk to ourselves to ensure that there is palpable equity amongst the various groupings in the North so that we can go out together with a common agenda and say that we want this Presidency. And when we get it, we have to clearly define what we want to achieve for Nigeria, not just for the North, the years to come or at least for the time that we shall be in control. The North had been in control of this country before. But the achievements have not been very great. Now we want power again. Let us plan to do better, if we get it, by carrying everybody along. This idea of ethno-religious intolerance must be brought under control. Otherwise, the North will remain a divided North. Its agriculture will not improve same with its economy. Nothing will improve. Unemployment will not improve and there will be no investments. So, we need to think about all these and ensure that we are doing something that will benefit us as a people.
Emphasis has been placed on the so-called agreement that Jonathan consented to run for a single term in 2011. And the President seems ready to use the vulnerability of the political system to violate this pact. But given his poor records as you pointed out right now, is there any possibility that he will succeed?
The process of electing a President requires that he is nominated by a party. So, if President Jonathan is nominated by the PDP through due process at a convention in Abuja or wherever, he may emerge as a presidential candidate of his party. APC and other political parties also have their presidential candidates. So, it is left for Nigerian electorates to elect who they want. The problem is that Nigerians have lost a lot of faith in the electoral process because of the ugly things that happen during elections- the absence of ballot materials, the rigging of elections, the violence that accompanies it and the fact that when you end up seeking redress in court, you do not get a judgment that you deserve. So, 2015 is a worrisome period for Nigerians because they have to contend with Jonathan's ambition. We have to contend with Jonathan presenting himself as candidate of the PDP. We have to contend with the political tensions that may definitely arise and also rally round APC, an emerging party to present their own candidate. There is the North/South divide and all kinds of permutations with surface. We need to be prayerful so that Nigeria does not explode in 2015.
Do you foresee worse times ahead of the PDP, considering its internal strife, the NGF crisis and Jonathan's sour relationship with some governors?
I believe the crisis in the PDP is God's way of helping Nigeria to take another look at itself. PDP has ruled this country consecutively for the past 14 years. And we know what achievements and failures we have seen not just at the federal level, but also at the state level. We know those which are not functioning the way they should. So, there is dire need for Nigerians to do a re-think. And that's why "Change" is going to be the motto of APC. We need a change in Nigeria desperately or else, we shall end up in a bad situation. I think 2015 is a time for us to set an agenda for Nigeria. Even in the PDP, there should be sane voices that can say, look Nigerians are not happy with this, this, and that. Let's us effect change. But if they fail and even come to power through whatever means, the country will not move forward. It will be just a cabal running the show. We want democracy to go down to the roots. We want participatory democracy where people will feel they belong and have a say on who takes decisions for them.
The Senate has taken a position on some clauses in the proposed Constitution amendment, which includes six-year single term and removal of powers of wage fixation from exclusive to concurrent list. Are the conclusions on these two issues in the best interest of Nigerians?
On the issue of the six –year tenure, there were consultations across the States. I don't know what was the consensus. But I have no particular feeling about the six-year tenure if Nigerians want it. Four- year tenure has been in practice. And in the United States of America and elsewhere, it works. I feel it is something that we don't have strong institutions in Nigeria to ensure free and fair elections. If elections are free in Nigeria, then it will be a fair game. But on the issue of wages, the unions would want the wages to be controlled and to be uniform throughout the land. But the strength of the economies of States differs. The economy of Lagos is different from that of Benue or Taraba State. The cost of living is also different. So, when you say that everybody must pay everybody the same amount of money, it creates problems for some people. Whereas in other States, the population is wealthy enough to pay taxes or have enough resources. In others, it is the opposite. I think, we should be able to say that there should be a minimum wage. But the wage must not necessarily be uniform in the land. It does work like that.
The APC has come on board. Do you think it has sufficiently prepared itself to counter the PDP?
APC, as you know, is the coming together of several parties to strengthen the opposition and to make them more competitive vis-à-vis the PDP. If elections are held in this country today, based on the existing scenario…, you may still give them the benefit of doubt that they are going to emerge victorious. What APC is hoping is that more Nigerians will see the need for a change from what the country is experiencing and take on a new party so that we can have a redirection of our thinking and approach to development and so forth. APC may not necessarily win every election or take over the whole country, but it will improve our democracy. It will make it more possible to deliver more services, educate the people to realize that what they are getting is not good enough. Another party can do better. I am just hoping that that's the way we can look at it.
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